[MUD-Dev] Cans of Achievements and Quests

[Sean Kelly]

From: "Rayzam" <rayzam at travellingbard.com>
> From: "Sean Kelly" <sean at hoth.ffwd.cx>

>> I'll define "achievements" since that's the crucial term.  By
>> achievements I mean anything that permanently affects the game
>> state.  The bulk of the current crop of MMORPGs follows the
>> popular MUD model where canned quests are constructed for players
>> to play through, and each element of those quests resets after a
>> predetermined interval so other players can experience the quest
>> as well.  There are no achievements because the world state
>> resets -- nothing a player does has any lasting impact on the
>> environment.  One might argue that completing the quest is an
>> achievement whether or not the effects are permanent, but it
>> doesn't feel that way to me.

> Why is this so bad? It sometimes seems to have the infamy of the
> Boogeyman! I start with the assumption that the games are for
> people's entertainments, and not as a full replacement for real
> life. From there, look at other entertainment. There are fairly
> standard story and movie plots that get rehashed over and
> over. One person watches it. That doesn't detract from the
> enjoyment of someone else watching it. One person watches many
> different versions of it over their lifetime. That doesn't stop
> their enjoyment of later ones.

This is obviously a matter of personal taste, but for the most part
I agree.  So long as the story is a good one, it doesn't much matter
that the plot is unoriginal.  And a good thing too, since there are
no original themes :).

> Some versions are good and enjoyable. Others are bad. Others are
> boring. There are many tales of star-crossed lovers: Romeo and
> Juliet, Casablanca. There are many tales of boy with unknown
> heritage discovers himself and saves the world [or Rebel
> Alliance]. If we just reduce it to the lowest denominator, they're
> just canned plots. But when done right, they're so much more.

> So the devil is in the details. It's not that it's a canned quest
> which resets. It's the quality of the quest that matters. When a
> player has completed it, do they feel like they achieved
> something?  I want to argue that you don't need a lasting
> impact. You need the quality of the quest to be good enough that
> the player feels a sense of personal accomplishment. If it's just
> 'take package A to location B', very low to no sense of
> accomplishment. But if there's a story, and it's well crafted, and
> I get into the quest, then yes, I've accomplished something. Both
> follow the same formula.

In games that don't claim to be set in a pesistent world, then I
agree.  Perhaps it's the label that causes the problem for me.  In
single-player RPGs, anything I do has a lasting impact in the game
world.  In a LAN RPG, everything still has a lasting impact and I
get to do it with my friends as well.  In MMO RPGs, suddenly nothing
has a lasting impact but I still get to have my friends along.
Considering this, why would I ever choose a MMORPG over a LAN-based
game?  I might argue "the large community" except that the vast
majority of people in that community aren't people I have any
interest in interacting with.  Though I have to admit I'm pretty
antisocial.

> If you don't find a sense of achievement, please note the quality
> of the quest. See if they correlate. I'd be surprised if they
> didn't.

I remember the last big quest I did in Asheron's Call.  It was a
multipart event where you ended up joining an assassin's guild and
got a flaming katar as a symbol of membership.  The plot and story
were fantastic.  There were portions spread all over the continent.
It was really well-done.  But when I one of the latter dungeons
there was a mob of people clamouring to get in.  My party snuck in
and got the door shut and locked and fought our way to the final
room where we were supposed to get some item that was a quest
component.  The room was full of people and we had to set and
enforce a line order to make sure everyone got one of that
thing... 80% of the people weren't on the quest and didn't know what
the item was for, while the remaining few who weren't in our party
were high-level characters waiting on the item to present as gifts
to prospective followers.  Hours later when it was my turn in line
I'd pretty much given up on MM questing in general.  That many
people in a world with limited content only detract from the quality
of the experience.

Sean



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