[MUD-Dev] Crafting/Creation systems

[Dave Rickey]

From: "Ron Gabbard" <rgabbard at swbell.net>
> From: "Dave Rickey" <daver at mythicentertainment.com>

> Let's say the total population on the server is 2,500.  Now,
> assume that I play in a larger realm on that server that has a
> population of 1,000.  (Some realms have significantly fewer
> players.) Within my realm, people are equally distributed amongst
> casters, rogues, and melees so that there are 333 of each.  Thus,
> the total market for metal weapons is 333 as the other 667 use
> bows or staves.

Just FYI, your numbers are low by about a factor of 5.  In general
only 20% of all players are logged on at peak time.  Also, you need
a jigger factor for alts, there are a non-trivial number of players
with multiple 50's in the same realm.

> The price of the weapon cannot exceed the value of the difference
> in effectiveness between the readily-available mob-dropped weapon
> (which is free) and the crafted weapon.  (Unless, as you later
> point out, it's either spend the money on the crafted item or it's
> worthless.)  In addition, the cost in time of finding a crafter,
> ordering the weapon, and traveling to pick it up (transaction
> costs) has to be added to the price.  Example: If I have multiple
> 14 effective-dps weapons sitting in the bank from various mobs and
> a spare in my pack, the price for the crafted 16.2 weapon cannot
> exceed the perceived value of an additional 2.2 dps + transaction
> costs.

At the high end, tiny differences in utility value can have huge
effects on perceived value.  If you have a weapon with an effective
DPS of 16.1, and the crafter can make you one with a eDPS of 16.2,
most players will consider the 16.2 almost infinitely more
desirable.

> The problem is that by fixing the ore costs, the weaponcrafter has
> a minimum that they can charge to the customer and still be
> profitable.  Compound that by the fact that the ores for the high
> end weapons are only obtainable in the Relic Keeps (where there
> weren't forges when last I played) and the travel time required by
> the crafter boosts that cost up as well.  (Whether the crafter
> gets paid for that time is a different issue.)  In DAoC, if the
> players mined the raw materials for crafted goods, the
> player-driven market price for ores, leathers, and woods would
> drop dramatically... particularly at the higher-end where there is
> little demand.  This would allow crafters to price their goods in
> such a way that they are competitive with mob-dropped loot and
> increase their business.

And that *would* be dramatically inflationary.

> The bottom line is that there just isn't enough business to
> support a crafter role given the current decay rate and cost
> structure that would allow them to recoup their investment and
> on-going costs in their craft.  The option is always open to
> increase the decay rate and reduce the drop rate of mob loot.
> However, crafter-made weapons are so expensive that players would
> eventually have to increase their PvE mob-killing to earn loot and
> cut back on their RvR... even the level 50's who no longer get any
> XP from killing mobs.

I've been working on that problem recently.

>> The main thing is that players will spend themselves broke
>> chasing tiny marginal gains in performance, regardless of whether
>> the economy is open or closed, or if raw material prices are
>> fixed or floating.

> This is only true in a situation where players have nothing better
> on which to spend their money... which is inflationary in itself
> in a different manner.  If the only thing in the world to buy is
> armor/weapons, the only value that the currency has is the
> incremental performance bonus from improving their equipment.
> It's either buy better equipment or the money is worthless.  Money
> is intrinsically worthless... it's just a number representing
> coins in vault.  The only value it has are the values of goods and
> services that can be bought with it.

And the mark of a truly failed game economy is when cash stops being
an acceptable form of exchange.  There are many things in other
games that literally cannot be purchased for any amount of cash,
because cash is available in almost infinite supply to anyone who
wants it.  With the partial exception of dragon loot (which has an
insane perceived value for various reasons), everything is
negotiable for cash in Camelot.  I say partial because there *have*
been a few such purchases, but they've usually required the treasury
of a largish guild.

> Everything with DAoC is basically, fundamentally sound.  It caters
> to a specific player type and has a narrow scope of activities and
> rewards that supports that group well.  From a high level, it's a
> series of power-ups that culminate in a massive team-based PvP
> arena.  Personally, I like a broader experience, but that's
> OK... 200,000+ subscribers enjoy your model and that's what
> counts. <grin> Some people like Italian food, some people like
> Thai food, some people like burgers... that's what choice is all
> about.

Easier to start from a firm foundation and build out.  I can use
economic incentives as a key to expanded gameplay possibilities
precisely because the core system is sound, and I don't have to
worry about having effectively infinite supplies of cash undermine
other game systems.  We can let players create arbitrarily effective
magical items (something crafting systems for OLRPG's have never
been able to do), because we don't have to worry about infinitely
effective items being generated from infinite amounts of cash, and
breaking everything else.

--Dave


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