[MUD-Dev] ghost mode (was Re: SW:G)

[Amanda Walker]

Rayzam <rayzam at travellingbard.com> wrote:

> When ghosting is around there are a few issues that get derived
> from it:

>   1) scouting - Ghosts can scout ahead and tell a party what
>   monsters are waiting and where. They can search around safely
>   figuring out solutions to puzzles.

That all depends on how it's implemented.  Remember that I did
suggest that quest areas could be fenced off, for example, or that a
ghost couldn't interact with the world (thus making it impossible to
open closed doors, etc.).  I wasn't proposing "noclip, debug, pop
the hood entirely off" mode, just a "sightseeing" mode.  An idea,
not a spec :-).

>   They can do all manner of things that removes the excitement and
>   edginess of not quite knowing what's around. If you've played
>   any RTS-style games, it's very much like the difference between
>   having and not having the Fog of War. There's more tension, and
>   more involvement for me at least, by having a fog of war.

... If you like that sort of thing.  I don't think that the only
purpose of a virtual world is to provide a context for combat.

>   A little bit of randomization aids in keeping content fresh, but
>   there's no point in having that if it can be free scouted.

On the other hand, having it fenced off with a combat requirement
represents a pure cost to some of us.  I'll reiterate that I find
mud/mmorpg combat to be an utter waste of time.  If I want to kill
stuff (which I sometimes do), I have combat games for those.  PvE
(Halo, Unreal II), PvP (Q3, UT), duel (DOA3), whatever, all of which
provide a combat experience orders of magnitude better than any MMO
game currently out there.

I love puzzles.  However "figure out how to kill n orcs in a row
before they respawn" is not a terribly interesting puzzle.  "Wow,
there's a door up here.  I wonder how I can get my character up
here..." is much more fun, for me (many of AC1's quests were quite
fun in this respect).

>   2) Corollary to (1), while ghosting and exploring is a positive
>   thing for explorers, it, like all game mechanics, will be used
>   by players in other ways if it helps those players advance their
>   own gamestyles. So ghosting will be used by achievers to level
>   faster and better. It will be used by killers.

Certainly.  Any game that implements it should take this into
account, just like any game should take into account other C4ISR
assets players may have: web walkthroughs, guild forums, voice chat
(makes coordinating a PvP squad a lot smoother than having to type),
having all players in a group in the same room, trading keyboards
occasionally, whatever.  The most effective killing and achievement
players I know use all sorts of in-game and out-of-game assets to
improve thier effectiveness, including "free scouting" (ultra high
level member does run through first, leads other members through
minimum-risk path).

>   3) Lack of socializing. If you can ghost through and see the
>   content, you've no need of others.

Why not?  Is content appearance the *only* thing you ever socialize
about?

>   Some content, in a combat-oriented game, requires people working
>   together to get to. Ghosts go through without that. Some is
>   dangerous and may need a higher level character to clear it.

Indeed.  On the other hand, "going through it" is quite a different
thing that observing it in ghost mode.  Consider a Quake 3 level.
Before the game starts, I can zip around peeking at corners to my
heart's content.  But seeing the content is not at all the same as
playing the content.  The playfield doesn't have to be secret in
order to be fun.

>     As you pointed out: ghosting is no different than a higher
>     level character clearing the dungeon. I wholeheartedly
>     disagree. In that case, the player is interacting with another
>     player.

Er, no.  I pointed out that a ghost serving as scout is no different
from a high level player acting as scout, except that the ghost
can't assist as much.

>   4) No pain, no gain. I'm an explorer type, but I gain a bigger
>   feeling of accomplishment by earning my way there.

So earn your way there.  It's like playing a console game on "don't
hurt me" mode (or god mode) in order to familiarize yourself with
the playfield before turning on "insanity" mode and actually playing
it.  Ghosting around gets you no xp, no loot, no quest reward, etc.
It's not experiencing the content, it's just viewing it.

>   A new room is much more satisfying if I had to solve a puzzle,
>   fight my way in, etc, than just another room I walked into
>   easily. I don't know, but I would guess that if I ghosted
>   through an area, seeing every nook and cranny, I wouldn't enjoy
>   it as much.

I know from repeated experience that I enjoy combat areas and quests
a lot more when I know where I'm going.  Maybe this is one of those
"asking for directions" things :-)...

Amanda Walker
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