[MUD-Dev] ghost mode

[Daniel.Harman at barclayscapital.com]

From: Tess Lowe [mailto:tess at soulsong.org.uk]
> Dan Harman wrote:

> Personally though I'd rather 'achieve' for points and ranking
> positions and respect rather than to level up and access
> content. Why is there this assumption that everyone would leave
> after seeing all the content? Wouldn't achievers be as captivated
> by league tables as by levels? Levels always have a cap - league
> tables do not, unless you're number 1 at absolutely everything.

Which is why league tables are actually pretty depressing. At least
with with levels, there is a cap (even if developers do move it
periodically). It gives you a target, you can get to level 50 and
say 'I've made it', and you know you'll still be level 50 the next
day. League tables are treadmills, you can't ever get off if you
want to keep that achievement, and for me the obvious futility is a
huge turn off.

I'm not saying they are a bad idea, I'd put them in my game, but
only as a parallel axis of advancement, never as the core.

> One thing I learned from playing Achaea - having as many routes to
> obtaining the respect of other players as possible is a good
> thing. Grunt Levelling is one way. Player skill is
> another. Politics is another. Creativity is another. While content
> and area access depends solely on levelling, all these other play
> styles are pushed away.

Absolutely, parallel axis of achievement are to my mind a
fundamental tenet of good RPG design.

>> Even single player games keep things back as a reward, and they
>> don't have anything like the content problems that MMOs do!

> I'm not convinced by that. There are many types of game that make
> all content available at the start, particularly those involving
> PvP. Perhaps this is why FPShooters are incorporating ghost modes
> while MMORPGs generally are not, though I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy
> floating around and watching more in the latter.

Well Raph already touched on this, with respect to other people
providing an near infinite possibility space. I agree completely,
although channeling peoples pvp desires in a non destructive fashion
is still a bit of a work in progress for the field. Not to mention
the difficulty of designing conflicts with sufficient breadth and
depth to tap into even a small proportion of this space.

Getting back to my point of using content as a reward, you are
right, its not the only way to do things, but to throw it away is to
dispose of a valuable motivational tool. Whats to say that Quake
wouldn't be more fun if you got access to better weapons and new
levels as you became a better player? I'd certainly enjoy that!

> I don't understand it when people say "You would quit after two
> weeks if there was no new content or you'd seen everything,"
> because that patently isn't and wasn't true at all. Quite the
> reverse - new content can make me feel like a newbie again, which
> can be quite unpleasant.

Well fair enough we can only ever speak for our own play styles with
any authority, and clearly we differ. Personally I lose interest
fairly quickly doing the same thing time and time again - once I've
grokked the problem space. Perhaps this harks back to the depth &
breadth problem though, maybe if game systems were more interesting
I could keep exploring their problem space and not worry that I was
in the same damned dungeon for the 6th week running.

>>> Do you want my money?

>> Yes but not at the expense of people who are likely to stick
>> around for longer.

> Fair comment, although I suspect you are writing that from the
> point of view of someone who quits when the content runs out.

Don't you? I suspect its just our definition of content that
differs.

>> Ok, you've just demonstrated you are a gfx junkie. That's
>> problematic for a game which intends to have a>3 year liftetime!
>> I'd much rather keep you interested with a controlled
>> dissemination of content.

> Yes, I like to see pretty gfx. Yes I like smooth-as-silk
> movement. But I do NOT need constant new content. That's not my
> mindset at all. But you are right, I'll probably be better off in
> "There" than EQ. I just think it's a shame that something like EQ
> cant support my playstyle, because I think the content and the
> people are very pretty and very numerous and I'd like to have been
> inspired to hang out there more than the two months I managed. A
> large number of my friends have played there for over 3 years now.

Ok, so what mechanics would you add to EQ that would motivate you to
stay?  These have to be systems that won't undermine the core
mechanism of the game or unduly damage other players enjoyment.

Dan
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