MMO Communities (was RE: [MUD-Dev] MMORPG Cancellations: Thesky isfalling?)

[Derek Licciardi]

Sean Howard wrote:
> "Derek Licciardi" <kressilac at insightbb.com> wrote:

>> Are you telling me that there was no community surrounding the
>> tragedy of 9/11?

> I'm not sure I'm comfortable with you bringing that up. It is
> difficult for me to argue without seeming unpatriotic or
> insensitive. But yes, there were hundreds of communities, not just
> one.

I wouldn't consider you unpatriotic to argue that there were
differing views.  That is obvious but it can be argued that there
existed a large number of people that fit your definition of
community from your other post.

Sean Howard wrote before:

  I would say a "meaningful" community is a collection of XXX with
  similar community based ideals (not laws, but like them) where
  each XXX can contribute to the community in such a way that all
  members are affected."

JC: Not sure how to cross quote from posts...

  <EdNote: Please use any method you want that makes clear that it
  is a quote from another message and who the original author(s)
  were.  The goal is clarity and some attempt at referential
  integrity.  Beyond that I don't care much.>

Citizens of the US poured support and prayer for the victims and the
number of people that did so was in the millions.  The act of that
support is indicates both your common ideals and contribution.

>> What then is the whole idea of nationalism if it is not a large
>> scale community guided by a simple but bonding relationship
>> between its members?

> If you want to change the subject to something else dealing with
> public opinion, I'll play. But I'm not touching nationalism
> rationally when the feelings around it are anything but.

Regardless of your views on nationalism as a rational thought
process this doesn't remove the fact that it exists and seems to
indicate that extremely large communities can and do exist.

>> Sure within those large communities there are sub communities but
>> it's hard to tell me that the Teamsters union isn't really a
>> community when the entire lot of them threatens to strike on UPS.

> I believe that the union is made up of dozens, if not hundreds, of
> smaller local unions.

The fact that there are local chapters is undeniable but when they
strike they are a large community.  Striking is not made up of
hundreds of local unions deciding to strike.  It's under one command
and the members all act in unison for the cause of the community.
There has to be something there that rationalizes that event and I'd
say it is community.  Each member typically suffers for the other
members by taking only a fraction of their pay to support the
union's cause.  Left up to the individuals there would not be nearly
the support for a strike so it has to be community that binds them
all.

>> MMOs have not even begun to design for large scale communities.

> I disagree. They've just been focusing on different parts that you
> would like.

Maybe.  I can't really back up that opinion so we'll leave it at
that.

> I think you are getting distracted by this "law" again. Sometimes,
> people put ideas out there to challenge your perception of the
> world. I don't think that the guy who wrote the law would even
> argue that 250 was arrive at through study or even observation. He
> probably just picked a number that was large enough and small
> enough to make the point.

I'm not distracted by the law.  It's a common belief amongst readers
of this list that 250 people IS the largest size a community can be.
I'm not convinced that is true.  I'm proposing to remove the number
and further define the law.  I'm not fixated on the number.  I'm
challenging the notion that significantly larger communities cannot
exist.

Derek
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