MMO Communities (was RE: [MUD-Dev] MMORPG Cancellations: Theskyisfalling?)

[Sean Howard]

"Derek Licciardi" <kressilac at insightbb.com> wrote:

> I wouldn't consider you unpatriotic to argue that there were
> differing views.

That's not what I would've argued. I'd rather not offend anyone on
this list.

> Citizens of the US poured support and prayer for the victims and
> the number of people that did so was in the millions.  The act of
> that support is indicates both your common ideals and
> contribution.

Let me move the subject to a similar situation. I create a webcomic
which is read by thousands of people. A small subset of those
participate in the forums. The comic I make has an affect on those
thousands of readers, but their act of reading it makes no
difference to me. In short, I am a producer and they are
consumers.... yet they are bound by what they consume and it is
called a "community". It is not.

In this case, the word "community" is used to describe a collection
of people tied together by common interests... not people who
interact with each other. This producer/consumer thing is
interesting, and I'm not 100% certain where it fits in the grand
scheme of community, but it isn't a community except in the broadest
and least useful sense of the word.

> Regardless of your views on nationalism as a rational thought
> process this doesn't remove the fact that it exists and seems to
> indicate that extremely large communities can and do exist.

Nationalism is something which many people feel a deep emotional
connection too. To discuss something rationally is to approach it
from complete objectivity, cold and
unemotional. Uninvolved. Arrogant. Some people take offense to that
kind of attitude when speaking about something they believe everyone
should be passionate about.

I don't disagree that it exists, but I think that it is a subject
which will distract the conversation. We can find less charged
subjects to discuss the same principles.

> Striking is not made up of hundreds of local unions deciding to
> strike.

What we are discussing now is not communities, but government -
which is used to organize communities. One's power within a
community is a different subject than whether one belongs to that
community.

> It's a common belief amongst readers of this list that 250 people
> IS the largest size a community can be.

I have not been on this list for very long, so I have yet to see
that number quoted as a cold hard fact. I think that most people
agree with the idea that communities break down and perhaps haven't
put much thought into when. If they quote the 250, it is probably
because someone they respect and look up to said it first.

I can't speak for anyone else on this list, but I can't say whether
it breaks down at 223, 250, or 437. I'd even say that it depends on
the community and the type of government that controls that
community. But it does break down at some measurable and possibly
predictable point...  assuming you have a decent model.

> I'm not convinced that is true.  I'm proposing to remove the
> number and further define the law.  I'm not fixated on the number.
> I'm challenging the notion that significantly larger communities
> cannot exist.

I think it depends on your definition of community. I think that
community is related to how loud you can speak. Star Wars Galaxies
may have 4,000 simultaneous players, but I have no way of reaching
them. I cannot produce for the good of that community. However, I
can write a tutorial which will be read by all people who read the
website it is posted on - which will not be the same people. For
instance, someone might read it who is doing research on MMORPGs and
hasn't played SWG yet

I think that the more voices there are, the harder it is to be
heard. At the point that you cannot be heard, the community will
neccessarily break down into smaller groups where you can.

- Sean Howard
www.squidi.net
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