[MUD-Dev] Playing catch-up with levels

[Threshold RPG]

On 4 May 2004, at 3:36, Sean Howard wrote:
> "Threshold RPG" <business at threshold-rpg.com> writes:
>> On 28 Apr 2004, at 14:18, Sean Howard wrote:

>>> Why not dump the whole level thing altogether? Every character
>>> is equal from the time they start to the time they quit.

>> It isn't really an RPG at this point, is it?

> Why not? Most people would consider Animal Crossing or Harvest
> Moon an RPG.

I can forsee this devolving quickly into a debate over semantics,
but I've played both of those and they had more a SIM feel than an
RPG feel. I enjoyed them both.

Furthermore, note that in your statement you said every character is
equal from the time they start to the time they quit. That is the
salient point I was responding to, not the specific mention of
levels.

In Animal Crossing, Harvest Moon, and all the other games you
mentioned, players are not equal indefinitely. An Animal Crossing
character "levels up" by getting a bigger house, making a lot of
money, collecting sets, filling up the museum, catching a coelacanth
(yes, we played a lot of Animal Crossing), etc.

It isn't the levels, its the advancement and character development
that are generally required components of an RPG. If everyone is
equal forever, from beginning to end, it isn't much of an RPG.

> Besides... what's in a name? Won't the rose smell just as sweet?
> Can't you create a MMOG with all the trappings of Everquest
> without the leveling and still have a good game that people would
> want to play - perhaps even more so?

Sure you could. But once again, remember that you said "Every
character is equal from the time they start to the time they quit."

That's where you've lost ONE of the crucial elements of being an
RPG.

>> The grind has absolutely nothing to do with a system being level
>> based. The grind is an economic model by which many MMORPG things
>> the more they make you grind, the longer you play and the longer
>> you play, the longer you pay.

> Which applies to killing monsters as well. But, don't you think
> that there could be a better, more interesting way of approaching
> the problem?

I definitely agree there are better ways to approach the problem. My
point was only that "the grind" is not endemic to level based
systems.

> Besides, I've seen grind in completely free games. As much as
> pessimism suites me, in this case I can't attribute the grind to
> developer greed.

I don't think it is greed either. I think some developers think "the
grind" is a good way to keep people interested in their
game. Apparently they aren't wrong. Obviously a lot of people enjoy
the grind, whether they admit it or not.

There are, however, a lot of people who despise the grind and those
are the kinds of people just waiting for MMORPGs to come out that
don't rely on "the grind" as a way to ensure long term play.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Hartman, J.D. (http://www.threshold-rpg.com)
President & CEO, Threshold Virtual Environments, Inc.
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