[MUD-Dev] weapon choices (was re: DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?)

[Amanda Walker]

Warning: pedantic sword geeking follows.

On Jan 17, 2005, at 11:36 AM, Miroslav Silovic wrote:

> This refers to the use of two-hander on the battlefield. I was
> specifically refering to a dungeon crawl, in cases where you can't
> seriously expect to get 'some space'.

I disagree.  A two-handed sword differs more in technique than in
space required--blades are on average not *that* much longer than a
longsword (or my personal favorite, the "bastard sword", which can
be used one or two handed--as can its eastern analogs).  A "dungeon
crawl" as it exists in most MMORPGs (with nice wide corridors and
high ceilings, since most MMORPG architecture is overscaled) would
pose no problems for a two-handed sword.  In fact, it could be
argued that a two-hander would be *better* for dungeon crawls, since
you don't need to lug around a shield.

Shields are heavy, by the way.  I haven't run into an MMORPG where
using a shield makes you tire faster, but boy is it true in real
life.  You can't use a sword block against a missile weapon, however
(Star Wars notwithstanding ;-)).

> If I was a smart NPC and wanted to guard my treasure from pesky
> PCs with two handers, the first thing I'd do is make my dungeon
> confined.

I've always been a bit perplexed by the overscale aspect of MMORPG
(and FPS) architecture.  "Well, realistic scale makes it feel
confining."  "But ... you're in a tunnel!  It *is* confining!"  But
that's a different rant...

> Wikipedia:

>  Two-handed swords made for combat use are actually quite light,
>  averaging around 2.5 to 3 kilograms, with the heaviest examples
>  reaching 5 kilograms.

Well, for big honking parade swords, OK.  However, Wikipedia is not
necessarily the best reference.

Bastard swords are about 3 pounds (1.25kg)--figure an Oakshott Type
XIIa with about a 38" blade and about 50" total length.  These are
well documented as being used with two-handed techniques,
particularly in Germany (as evidenced by several woodcuts showing
"blossfechten" (unarmored fighting, literally "shirt-fighting") with
this type of sword.

Even if we rule out bastard swords... a German "great sword" (actual
combat weapon, not parade weapon) would still only around 4 pounds
(a little under 2 kg), and not be much longer than a bastard
sword--just a heavier blade.

Going with longer weapons... Consider a Danish 2-hander (Oakeshott
type XVIIIe) with a 42" blade and a ricasso--about as unambiguously
two-handed as it gets--we're still only talking around 4 pounds (<
2kg).  For a modern functional replica, see
<http://www.allsaintsblades.com/AT1591.htm>.  Angus Trim makes
excellent historically correct swords.

A five kg weapon (11 pounds) isn't a sword, it's a club.  If anyone
has any references to such weapons being used in actual combat, I'd
be interested--all the credible references I've seen describe these
as show pieces or swords used for beheadings (where they are acting
more as a cleaver than a sword).

> My bad. Cavalry lance it is, then. Or a bow.

Speaking of bows, everyone who complains that archers are
overpowered in RPGs needs to go read up on Agincourt :-).

> Realism as a design goal may mean something completely different
> from just-copy-medieval-earth. Yes, I know I'm stating the obvious
> here.

And I agree, despite my comments about medieval Earth above.
Fighting games are more reminiscent of Hong Kong martial arts movies
than real life, but they are still great fun.

Amanda Walker
_______________________________________________
MUD-Dev mailing list
MUD-Dev at kanga.nu
https://kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev