[MUD-Dev] MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy

[Sporky McBeard]

"Michael Hartman" <michael at thresholdrpg.com> wrote:
> Sporky McBeard wrote:

>> You want to "fix" MMORPG quests. Here's what needs to happen:

> I disagree with almost all of your points to varying degrees of
> intensity.

Great! If you agreed, there'd be nothing to discuss :)

>>  1) Dump the story crap - Nobody reads that stuff, nobody
>>  cares. They see "Find 12 Bloody Monkey Paws" and skip the rest.

> Wrong. Horribly, short sightedly, wrong.

> There are actually a lot of people who read the stuff and derive a
> lot of enjoyment from that part of the quests.

There are people who like to pierce uncomfortable body parts. No
matter what you do, you'll find some people who like something and
some who don't. As a designer, your job is not to cater to all of
them individually, but instead simultaneously. Since stories only
appeal to a rather small portion of the audience, and contribute
nothing tangible to the gameplay, there are better ways to spend
your time and energy.

That isn't to say that you shouldn't make interesting vistas or
interesting characters or even interesting quests (note the
distinction) - just that the story part, the passive part, is
largely optional.

> I've seen these kinds of ranges in my own games and in every game
> I have played. Some people love the story and would be absolutely
> bored to tears if the story did not exist.

You are telling me that on a server with a thousand other players,
these people would be bored because they couldn't stop everything
and read a short story? That sounds like a failure of the designers
and the world, not of the pleasures of storytelling.

>>  3) Change the missions - Players go through the exact same
>>  motions with every quest as just about every other
>>  player. Something like Thottbot allows other players to look up
>>  the locations and goals that other players had already
>>  discovered. Personally, I think that instance missions are the
>>  answer here, because you can modify the mission based on the
>>  player.

> Instanced missions have their place- they prevent having to watch
> the Uber Evil Bad Guy you just killed respawn. But they are not in
> and of themselves the answer and overuse of instances has a severe
> negative aspect of the MM part of an MMORPG.

I said that the use of instances was a good solution for missions
which change with the players, not that they were the end all be all
of MMORPGdom. Like you said, instanced missions have their place.

>>  4) Allow certain players to create their own quests - I think it
>>  would be pretty nifty for a player to post a mission saying that
>>  they need X number of monkey paws and that they'll pay Y dollars
>>  for it.

> Not a bad idea, but really not a very effective one. Players can
> already do this through interaction. Perhaps a formally coded
> method might help, but I suspect the impact of this would be
> minimal.

What people seem to miss is that some people enjoy playing in a
world that other players affect, even if they don't talk to
them. Even just the existence of something like an auction house is
enough to make or break a multiplayer experience. Any way that gives
players the ability communicate with each other passively is a new
branch of communication worth taking.

>>  5) Allow certain players to create their own dungeons - I
>>  promise you that players are far more creative than most MMORPGs
>>  give them credit for.

> I can assure you that the majority of players are LESS creative
> than you think and will create such inane filth that it will
> actually cheapen your game and damage your gaming environment.

Actually, the solution to that is fairly simple. At low levels, make
the changes possible to a dungeon very strict. For instance, you can
only have five rooms and can only place monsters of level 5 - 7
(perhaps other players capture and train the monsters?) in specific
slots around the level.  Slowly introduce the players to new
elements as they get used to the old ones. I see no reason why even
the most uncreative player couldn't create a decent modular dungeon,
given enough direction and plenty of explicit boundaries. I guess
what I'm saying is, make it difficult to screw up.

There's this excellent Japanese GB game called Seme COM Dungeons
Druaga in which players collect cards that represent monsters,
equipment, and what not. A player has a dungeon connected to the
other player's dungeon by teleports. They don't make the floorplan -
there are dozens of pre-made dungeons available. When the battle
begins, you can put up to two monsters per room up to a limit of 8
monsters total. You can add monsters afterwards, but you have to do
it from your in game character. The game is EXTREMELY strategic and
open ended, even with the apparently limited building system.

>>  6) Dump the quests altogether - I mean, what purpose do quests
>>  really serve.

> Perhaps this one sums up why so many of the above suggestions are
> bad ones. It sounds like YOU don't really like quests and just
> churn through them for the rewards. That's fine. That is why no
> game should REQUIRE questing (WoW requires a few painful quests
> just to get core class abilities, for example).

I actually like quests a lot. But when it comes down to it, if
removing them from the equation allows us to open our minds to
further possibilities, I'm all for it. I don't think that quests are
the only solution. Some MMORPGs, like WoW, use it as a crutch
instead of providing what I would consider "deep" content (though
the battlefields do look like a step in the right direction).

> But don't let the fact that you clearly dislike quests bias you
> towards them entirely. There are certainly ways to make them
> better, but dumping them or dumping the story are not two good
> suggestions.

They aren't bad suggestions, just extreme ones. Thinking outside the
box sometimes requires a shock to the system to get started.

- Sean Howard
www.squidi.net
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