[MUD-Dev] Alternative team based approaches to game-play

[Johan A]

olag at ifi.uio.no wrote:
> Johan A:
>> olag at ifi.uio.no wrote:

>>> What are the problems with this approach? (well, except the
>>> identity issues)

>> EQ2 has its Group XP debt. Instead of people looking out for
>> eachother, people are now very reluctant to group with people
>> they don't know.  Unexperienced MMO players are already reluctant
>> to group and adding things like this only makes it worse when
>> they receive alot of abuse for messing up and causing harm to the
>> entire group.

> I didn't know about the group xp debt, so that was rather
> interesting. How does it work?

> Wonder why they added that. Have the designers explained why?

I think there was a good explanation that worked great on paper but
that turned out to be not so great in practise. If you loose
something when one of your team mates die, you are in theory bound
to look out for them more and make sure they don't die. But, it
worked out differently when it comes to strangers grouping. The debt
is not as severe as when you die yourself since you share the debt
over the entire team as I understand it.

>> As for only being disabled when your HP bar reach zero when near
>> a team mate, I personally is not too keen on this. I believe
>> there should be penalties for dieing. UOX had a similar I think
>> where you only were dissabled and got to keep your buffs and all.

> Yes, I agree that you should receive penalties for dieing, but
> let's consider some basic team-design requirements first:

>   1. Encourage teaming. Joining a team shouldn't be a risk
>   factor. Basically this means that you shouldn't loose more than
>   you gained from working in a team unless it is entirely your own
>   fault. E.g. XP loss is ok, but you shouldn't loose XP you gained
>   before joining the team.

Very interesting concept to only loose XP you gained from your
current team. I am all for XP loss on death myself.

>   2. Inclusive team design. Causual players have enough obstacles,
>   so the team's progress shouldn't be significantly hampered by a
>   single player.  And one should try to avoid situations where a
>   single invidiual is being picked on.

Healers are usually the first one to get praised or abused even if
they are not the one to blame for a 'bad pull'. This tends to change
though as players get more experienced and learn to read
situations. I think humans in general always want someone to blame
when things go wrong.

>   3. Team learning. The less knowledgable team members should be
>   allowed to learn from their experiences. Meaning, if a single
>   individual falls out then he should be able get back in quickly.

I think this is why it's important to have a 'slower' levelling
curve to make players learn from their mistakes early in the game
before the real penalties are enforced like below level 20 in AO and
EQ.

WoW (sorry to bring this game up all the time hehe) is an example
where people can level really fast and not always learn how to play
well in a team since the game can be soloed easily to high
levels. This is great in a way since you can play effectively solo
when you have limited time but for the rest of the community it can
be bad news when you end up with someone less skilled in team play
in critical situations.

>   4. Team unity. One for all, and all for one. Teams that take on
>   a group identity are more rewarding. The design shouldn't
>   encourage team members to go "solo".

I'm with you on this one. Usually if someone do go 'solo' the team
dies. If the team do stick together and play well they are rewarded
with nicer loot from bosses or and instance.

> I could go on... :)

> Anyway, all this 4 points suggests that the player should not be
> removed and experience a full death if he is still playing with
> the team.

>   1. He shouldn't die just because the other team members didn't
>   heal him.

I don't know a better solution really. See above for team
play/reward.

>   2. If he is less experienced then he shouldn't significantly
>   keep the team from having decent progress.

If the game is designed for group play foremost and the players have
had time to practise and learn their class then everyone in theory,
should be equally skilled. Again, this is only in theory of course
;)

>   3. If he is less experienced then he needs to learn faster than
>   the other players.

This would have to be up to the player really if he has managed to
avoid learning teamplay and/or his class.

>   4. The other team members should realize that if they don't take
>   care of all individuals then the team will go down real
>   fast. And they should be co-present until they disband.

They usually do and end up blaming the healer for not healing even
in impossible situations. I like the motto 'Have you hugged you
healer today?'. They need it.

- Johan
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