[MUD-Dev2] [DESIGN] What is a game?(again)was:[Excellentcommentary on Vanguard's diplomacy system]

[John Buehler]

Dave Scheffer writes:

"John Buehler" <johnbue at msn.com> wrote:

> > The core of this looks to be placing players into environments
> > where they can pursue conflicting agendas.  Game designers
> > seem to want to create flexible environments, but they end up
> > so flexible that players just do whatever they feel like
> > doing.  "Caliban" is pointing out that conflicting agendas can
> > cause problems.
> >
> > Conflicting agendas do cause problems by definition.  The agendas
> > conflict. If I want to walk through a city and get a sense of
> > it being an actual fantasy setting, then having some joker
> > dancing naked in public is going to be disruptive to the
> > experience that I'm seeking.  The game permits me to
> > follow my agenda.  But it also permits the joker to follow his.  They
> > conflict, and it may produce a confrontation.  We've all seen them.
>
> The problem is not that some players can "disrupt" the medieval
> setting by dancing naked.  The problem is that the gameworld
> doesn't respond to the behavior.  The mad, tearing their
> clothes dancing naked and eating feces, definitely existed
> then.  Evidence exists that sometimes entire towns went mad for
> various unknown reasons.

When I say "medieval", I mean "whatever context the player
findsentertaining".  Reality has nothing to do with it.  These things
are aboutentertainment.  If somebody finds high fidelity simulations of
past timeperiods entertaining, then that's their entertainment.

> The problem is the gameworld not recognizing aberrant behavior
> and providing a compensatory game mechanic.

I prefer to avoid trying to sculpt player behavior because players just
wantto do their own thing.  And they'll work hard to do it, no matter
what isthrown in their way.  So I guess I've retreated from that battle
and turnedmy attention to the task of bringing like-minded players
together.  Insteadof trying to discourage dissimilarly-minded players
from bugging each other.

> Why can't the town overlord agent detect when Pl4teD3wd's "Garb
> Sum" falls below a certain "accepted" threshold, that player's
> reputation is accordingly affected/persisted by the town
> overlord agent, and the NPC's/player share a common
> "mark of cain" indicator so that Pl4teD3wd is openly mocked in
> the square by NPCs who can refuse service or even bumrush
> him out of town with threats of violence/perma-death if he
> returns?  Why is it Bonehead and Pl4teD2wd can repeatedly crash
> the Tavern with no real justice that follows them around the
> world other than shades of glowy red stuff when it's pretty
> clear justice needs a mechanic that can kick in even
> when those "aberrant" players log off.

Feel free to pursue those mechanics of in-context penalties.  I think
you'llfind that it's very much like any form of security.  Counter and
response.Counter and response.  You will continue to try to herd the
players into amainstream behavior and they will continue to try to work
around anyrestrictions you place on them.  The whole process is
complicated by wantingto provide entertainment to your mainstream
players.  When you play thesecurity game, you may end up compromising
that mainstream entertainment.

JB