[MUD-Dev2] The Great Mud Survey

[Maxi Rose]

On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Kwon Ekstrom wrote:

> Okay, snipped most because it doesn't bear repeating.

Same here.

> To me... this sounds like a poor pvp/pvm situation.  On most muds that are
> both pvp and pvm, there are some limitations on pk to prevent this sort of
> thing.

But that's just it. This was not on a MUD. This was on an international,
corporate, pay-for-play MMO. EA's stance is that anyone with money enough
should be allowed to play. This means ANYONE, including griefers, is
allowed a first shot at the game.

> No, I don't believe that people who dislike pk are just whiney snivelling
> babies who need mommy to hold their hand.  You certainly act the part though.

By asking players to leave me alone, by telling someone how unpleasant an
experience it was for me to be grief-killed, this makes me "act the part"?
You've pigeon-holed me already, then.

> As for EA having non-pk areas... companies generally look at $$$ and little
> else.  If you can increase your profits simply by allowing non-pk areas, then
> so much the better.  I've played many games that have both a pvm and a pvp
> server.  Several web games have multiple instances running with slightly
> different rule-sets to cater to different types of players.  It's not
> surprising that most players prefer a non-pk environment.  They're safer and
> most people don't like risk.  Even as a PKer, I won't play if I have a
> limited amount of time... to get back what I lose if I do die.

So in short, you just said most people want non-pk areas. Then where is
the problem when MMOs give it to them? Or are you upset that most people,
via the MMO company programming, have made it so griefers no longer have
any "sheeple" to slaughter? You say you're an ethical pker, so why not go
off and pk those who WANT to be ethically pk'd? Do you need unwilling
victims for you to be able to have any fun?

> NPC's don't adjust their tactics to yours either.  If what you enjoy is
> whacking NPC's then that's your decision.  I prefer to kill players because
> sometimes PC's are smarter than NPC's.

So kill players who WANT to be killed. How much of a challenge can it be
for griefers to kill newbies? Again, if you're an ethical pker who would
prefer a challenge, you should have no problems leaving the newbies and
uninterested people alone and going after the truly challenging people who
are interested in fighting you.

> I've run into situations similar to what you describe.  More experienced
> players picking on the newbies who don't have a feel for the game... While it
> may have taken several deaths on my part, I generally arranged for them to
> die.  In this case, have you tried talking to other players on the game?  I
> know if someone was consistently following me around, that's poor pk
> behavior.  I'd have arranged for people who don't like them to meet them
> somewhere.  It's an ancient tactic known as an "ambush".  I've often made
> lasting friendships simply arranging for a griefer to die.

UO was famous for a group of players calling themselves Rangers. They ran
around killing griefers by the load-full. They tended to play on one,
maybe up to 3 servers. They never played much on MY server. They also
didn't play at 2 in the morning, which was when I did a lot of playing.
It's hard to find someone willing to do that for me. It's harder still
finding them to do it for me every single time I logged in.

> Anyway, the point being.  There are good ways to do things, and bad ways to
> do things... and sometimes what is a good thing can look bad after a few bad
> experiences.  Being a pker myself, I have a long list of tactics to use on
> people who have all the advantages.  It doesn't matter if I kill them
> personally, only that they leave me alone.  Generally speaking, griefers are
> cowards.  Once you make them think you aren't easy meat, they won't chase you
> anymore.  Raising a stink however, rarely does more than attract flies
> (griefers).

I never raised a stink to UO/EA. I made my disagreements politely known
and dealt with it as I watched UO grow and change. Here? This is a
discussion group of creators who are brainstorming. Nobody here is running
any games I play as I'm not talking about anything current. I'm explaining
my opinions as a potential customer/player for future games. I can hardly
be said to be atypical in my playstyle or there wouldn't be "pk switches",
"carebear lands", "level-based pk locks", etc.

I resent the original poster using rather political remarks about people
who don't enjoy pk, such as "programming fishing for "fruityfarie land""
and other similar assertions than people who are not interested in pk are
faeries, whiners, or other undesireable types, and are a minority who
somehow is able to control MMOs like some kind of gaming Illuminati,
forming some gay, whiny secret government who send black helicopters out
to get programmers and gaming companies who do not serve the interests of
some very tiny, yet somehow very powerful group of players.

I have NO desire to stamp out pking. I have no desire to disallow pkers
the right to kill people. I simply ask that they don't have the right to
kill ME and others like me. I am not a commodity to be used like cattle to
satisfy the whims of a pker. I have as much right to NOT be pk'd as the
pk'er has a right to find someone TO pk.