[MUD-Dev2] [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs

[Lachek Butalek]

On 5/17/07, Tess Snider <malkyne at gmail.com> wrote:
> Aren't enemy corporations run by players?  Psychologically speaking,
> that's apples and oranges.

Why? In the Eve Online case, it's fun and exciting gameplay. Why is it
not fun if the exact same thing happens, requiring the exact same
gameplay, but driven by the game engine? The reason your adrenaline
gland gets triggered - or the exact nature of the ultimate controller
of the stimulus that causes it to trigger - shouldn't have any bearing
on the effect of the adrenaline.

As a follow-up, what if a "boss monster" attacks while controlled by a
GM? Worse or better than if it attacks at random by game rules? Worse
or better than a player assault?

> That's like saying that people feel much better being struck down by
> God than they do being eaten by a random shark.  Either way, they've
> been slaughtered through bad luck and no consequence of their own
> actions, beyond just trying to play the game.

And if your game doesn't have permadeath, who cares? I'm not sure if
maybe I'm the exception, but when playing WoW I really couldn't give a
hoot if some monster killed me, since the penalty equated to
absolutely zero. In fact, if I'd gotten killed by some random boss
dude instead of being ganged by Hungry Wolves it would have broken the
monotony of my day.

> What type of gamer do you think *I* am?  I was a tailor on SWG.  A tailor!
>
> But you know what?  I had to train up my pistoleer skill.  Why?
> Because there were too many random, deadly mobs camping my mining
> equipment and my shop.  As I've already made it copiously clear, I
> don't enjoy being killed by random death from above when I'm just
> trying to go about my business.  I'm sure that Luke's Skywalker's aunt
> and uncle weren't too happy about it, either.

Correction: The game required you to be able to defend yourself from
assorted critters based on the location you chose to set up your
mining equipment and shop.

Had the game been designed more to your satisfaction (which in this
case happens to coincide with "more realistic") you would have been
able to hire guards to protect your valuable mining and retail
operation from indigenous wildlife, which would provide gameplay
opportunities for more combat oriented players, or (if the game
supported hiring NPC guards) would become more costly and may force
you to reconsider the fiscal benefits of mining in such a hostile
region.

Or, you could pump more skill points into Pistoleer, and defend
yourself while you mine. This will limit your ability to increase your
mining skills and will decrease your profits accordingly.

I see no gamebreaking design in interrupting crafters with combat. I
see only opportunity for gameplay, and perhaps some missed opportunity
for the designers to implement features that would make this potential
gameplay more fun and appealing to players.

> > The issue there is that players want (or, people *think* players
> > want) to see drastic increases in character ability every few hours of
> > gameplay.
>
> Well, the challenge here is having a reward schedule that is going to
> be sufficiently satisfying to the player.

No, the issue is that few games have managed to disconnect character
advancement with player satisfaction. In fact, as you mention, most
games revel in it, and use it as a crowd control method.

> > Ah, but when "Rat Killer Online" involves the exact same
> > button-mashing motions as "Wheat Farmer Online" does, and RKO seems
> > like a cardboard cutout virtual world designed to fulfill some 14-year
> > old's testosterone-driven fantasies of being a cool hero decked out in
> > all purples, while WFO actually properly simulates an economy and I
> > can see how my wheat farming has a real impact in the world - do you
> > still stand by that argument?
>
> Yes.  By all means, go build Wheat Farmer Online, and prove me wrong.  :)

Sorry, I made that one too easy to respond to. Let me try again.
WHY would RKO be inherently more fun to play than a game featuring
gameplay just as involved and complex, though it centers around
economy and crafting rather than killing mobs?

> Lots of people are already interested in crafting!  Though, in most
> games with crafting, I learn to craft new things over time.  Wheat
> farmers... grow wheat.

Wheat farmers learn to grow wheat in new places, or learn to develop
strands of wheat, or learn what factions are best for contracting the
milling of wheat, or who might want to buy really high-quality flour.
It all depends on how complex (or realistic) you want to make it.

> What is the hindrance in Tetris?  What about Bejeweled?

Neither of those games have anything in common with MMOs. Puzzle
Pirates perhaps, on the surface, but without the meta-game Puzzle
Pirates wouldn't be called an MMO.

> I AM one of "these folks," and I DON'T loathe teleportation or fast
> travel, because why in Juno's name would I want to run through the
> same stupid place I've already been 80 times, when I could be spending
> my time seeing someplace new?

I maintain that generally speaking, Explorer types aren't fond of
teleportation or fast travel, given my experience with that type on
message boards and the like. I can't prove it, and you can't prove the
inverse. Nick Yee or Richard Bartle might have a study or a book
reference somewhere, but we don't. So I suppose we'll have to agree to
disagree on that point, until someone proves either of us wrong.