[MUD-Dev2] Specialization

[cruise]

Thus spake Sean Howard...
> "cruise" <cruise at casual-tempest.net> wrote:
>>  >> of the game's content. I don't care for that approach at all. Perhaps
>>  >> people who sweat more should earn more, but I also believe that it's a
>>  >> game and that sweat, when it stops being fun, should not be rewarded.
>>
>> It depends, it seems, on why you are making games, and who for.
> 
> I think Skinner Boxes are a special type of cruelty reserved only for the
> monumentally stupid. If you are suggesting that some greater good may come
> out of purposely designing one, then I salute you sir. You accept the
> failings of mankind like I never could.

The stupid need entertaining too :P

Seriously, though, within reason I see this as more of a debate between 
tastes than anything else. I personally don't enjoy the grind myself, 
and won't play such games. To misquote Voltaire, however, "I may not 
play your game, but I will defend to the perma-death your right to make it."

>> I see nothing wrong with designing a game that says, right on the front,
>> "This game is only fun if you group with other people".
> 
> There is no good reason for ANY game to only be fun if you play with other
> people. At that point, it's a terrible game and quality comes from the
> social aspects.

Ever tried Settlers of Catan? Playing that with a few other young 
couples produces some very interesting bargainning suggestions...social 
interaction can be a game too, and including it as part of your game 
only widens your palette. Just because you personally find socialisation 
something to be avoided, don't dismiss it as useless for games.

>> It might not be as popular or successful as
>> other games, perhaps, but that's the choice I make as any designer:
>> focused, so successful only in a niche, or broad, and mildly interesting
>> to many.
> 
> That sounds to me like a defeatist attitude. Why don't you design
> something that can be successful and very interesting to a great many
> people? Why limit yourself? Either because you don't think you can or
> because you are an egotist who designs only to his own limited world view.

To mangle another quote: "You can please some of the people all of the 
time, all of the people some of time, but you can't please all of the 
people all of the time.

To me, that's the way the world works - it's no more defeatist than 
admitting I can't fly. If I ever figure out how to fly, I can ensure you 
I'll be the first up there pulling loops. If I ever work out a universal 
hook for every person's brain, you can bet I'll be making a game of that 
sucker.

>> That's, surely, the game designers perogative - to design the game to
>> focus on a certain type of gameplay.
> 
> Game designers have entirely too many prerogatives. Eventually you have to
> just stand up and say, hey buddy, you aren't choosing to do that. You just
> don't know how not to.

We already make broad and shallow - I'd say that's WoW. I don't believe 
it'll last either. Niche games are the difficult choices right now, 
because of the setup and maintenance costs of running an MMO - you need 
a certain minimum userbase to support yourself.

If ever worlds get as cheap to run as web-pages, then you'll see what I 
mean by niche content.

>> Again, so? Different players like different things - what's wrong with
>> choosing a particular audience and focusing on that one?
> 
> The same reason it would be wrong for a government to do the same. You
> aren't running a game. You are running a community. If you only have 10
> players, using gameplay to enforce xenophobia is fine. But when you have
> 10,000, it is morally reprehensible. If you have 10 million, it is down
> right criminal. If you have 100 million, then you are larger than many
> countries and should have your morals and actions judged appropriately.

Unless players have no choice as to which game to play, your metaphor 
isn't even close.

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. I'm offering a certain form of 
entertainment, which people can partake of or not. No matter how many 
people choose to partake of it, that was their choice, and they may 
change that at any time.