[MUD-Dev] Reusable plots for quests

[Travis S. Casey]

On Sat, 25 Oct 1997 coder at ibm.net wrote:
> On 24/10/97 at 08:44 PM, "Travis S. Casey" <efindel at io.com> said: >On Thu,

> >Most games aren't going to allow the
> >players to change the "laws of nature" of the setting, and I'd definitely
> >say that they *shouldn't* allow the players to do that.
> 
> Agreed, the examples I gave were overly extreme.  However, going back to
> the Rebel Alliance, the problem remains of what happens to the game when
> the Empire or Rebels are utterly defeated?  The game must change, and that
> requires redefining the problem which the game players are attempting to
> solve (ie the goal in in the mesh of goals, barriers and freedoms that
> define any game).  One approach is to make a cyclic goal series:
> 
> Rebel vs Empire -> One wins -> Fight for control of winner -> One wins ->
> Rebels vs Winnder -> Repeat.

That's possible.  Another possibility is for someone/something to choose
a new "goal" for the game -- preferably something that will seem to 
naturally arise from the changed circumstances that result from the
achievement of the old goal.  

A third, but IMHO less satisfying, possibility is to "fast forward" the
game universe.  By this, I mean moving the game universe forward to a
time when there is another interesting goal to be achieved.  Naturally,
this will mean that player's characters will have to be changed -- they'll
either be older or be dead.

This third way is basically the same as the second, but it has the 
advantage of allowing the mud's admins to choose their new story with
more freedom.  The disadvantage is in the required changes to the 
characters.  While many paper gamers will happily go along with this
sort of thing, I have a feeling that far fewer mudders would.

> >The game will definitely change over time, but the parameters within 
> >which that change can be made don't have to be infinitely broad.  
> 
> True, but even minor changes can have large side effects.  Consider what
> really happens to any world and its culture when the base currency of that
> world is devalued?  Take your standard fantasy game with its rationed
> prices based on gold and silver, and suddenly dump several hundred tonnes
> of gold in there from a few dragon hoards, or a super-lucky alchemist who
> finally did make gold out of lead,
> 
> I've been throwing massive change tokens in here deliberately as they are
> much easier to manipulate in a discussion than more minor stuff with its
> more measily and indeterminate side effects.

To use an overused phrase, it's all in how you look at things.  To me,
coming from a paper RPG background, a role-playing game is something that
requires constant involvement from the game master.  Thus, I don't have
a problem with having to change things to take into account unexpected
side effects of player actions.  I'm not saying that you do have a problem
with it, but I think there's some difference in perspective -- to me the
effects you're talking about seem more like features than problems.  :-)

> >That's what I meant by not having a steady state -- not that *nothing*
> >should be constant, but that the players should be able to do things
> >which have lasting effects.  (In contrast to most muds today, where
> >almost nothing that players do has a lasting effect.)
> 
> Capiche.  What this really results in hwoever are cahnges in detail, not
> real changes in game-state.

That's up to the creators of the game, really.  Changes in detail are the
easiest to allow and handle, but I have no problem with allowing changes
in game state, with the realization that this means the game admins will
have to be constantly involved with "tuning" the game.  Even there, 
however, you still have choices as to the level of change that the 
characters can make -- to put it in terms of our SW example, you don't
have to let the Rebellion succeed until and unless you're ready.
 
> The other problem here, is that you have created a system with sufficient
> fluidity that it is going to require continuous admin maintenance,
> tweaking and cajoling, to keep the thing working.  You are going to have
> to have a continupus feed of Admins who are very literally married to the
> game.

To extend the marriage point, the key is to find the right game.  I 
wouldn't want to do this kind of maintenance on a game based on a book
or movie -- as you say, you're bound to wander away from the theme of
the original.  I'd rather create my own setting, and see the process as
a cooperative storytelling between the players and the admins.  The
admins supply potential themes, and the players choose which ones to pick
up and develop.

> >There's no reason we major theme of a mud couldn't change over time.  In
> >the case of our example, once the Empire is defeated, the rebels still
> >have to try to put together a government, deal with any other forces that
> >try to step into the power vacuum left, and possibly perform "mopping-up"
> >actions against any organized pockets of resistance that might be left.
> 
> Yup, but this is an entirely different game really.  It also requires the
> game and the plaeyrs to constantly re-invent the game as it progresses, as
> the base fundaments of the game will be changing over time.  This is not a
> Bad Thing, its just very expensivce in time and Admins.  The really really
> nice aspects of this, are that game history suddenly starts having real
> import. Who what where and when within the game world is now of actual and
> real importance as these are player made and driven changes, with lessons
> to be learned and used again in the curent state.

Yep.  That's what I'd really like -- the same sort of effect that you get
in a long running paper RPG campaign, but able to do it in less time
because of having more people involved.

Of course, this kind of thing isn't for everyone -- the level of
involvement required is huge.  For me, it's more of a dream than anything
else now -- during the time that I had enough free time to really be able
to run something like this, I didn't have the expertise to do it.  If I
ever win the lottery, though, expect to see a kick-ass mud come up a year
or so after that.  :-)

--
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