[MUD-Dev] Re: Levelless MUDs

[jacob langthorn]

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Benjamin D. Wiechel [SMTP:strycher at toast.net]
	Sent:	Monday, June 15, 1998 3:11 PM
	To:	mud-dev at kanga.nu
	If you think about it, the equations that go along with this are
already
	built into the Paladian and AD&D role playing systems.  If you
so chose, I
	suppose you could use their equations, or you could write your
own based on
	what skills/stats you wanted to use.  One thing about them,
IIRC, is that
	you could have 100% in a skill, but often there were minuses
(were you
	shooting while running, did you have the proper tool, etc.).
This seems to
	have been an effective way in regular role playing to handle
skills.


	>   o Remove the level restrictions on eq. This is what the
builders
	>     objected to the most (see below). I am of the mindset that
levels
	>     could still be left in place for deciding relative "power"
of the
	>     eq (and the goodies/bonuses/penalties/etc. which go along
with
	>     the more desirable eq), but that if player characters no
longer have
	>     player levels, then there is no level check for using eq:
you
	>     found it, you can use it.

	Okay, call me crazy, but I don't think in 6 years of mud coding
that I've
	ever created a piece of equipment that was "level" based.
Strength/skill
	based, yes, but I've never said, hey, if you're under level 15
you can't use
	this.  Having level based eq seems to be a crazy idea to me.  If
you think
	about it from a real world perspective, most people couldn't use
a
	broadsword.  Why?  Because it's 6-8 foot long and quite heavy.
Likewise,
	fine, okay, you can pick it up.  Great, do you have the agility
to swing it
	effectively?  What about strategic/tactical expertise with it?
Those strike
	me as stats/skills.  Sure, if a 10 year old had the strength and
agility and
	desire, they could get to be darn good with one quickly.  But
what does age
	have to do with it?  A 50 year old man doesn't have as much hope
of doing
	what a 10-20 year old would with a broadsword.  As for what
damage a weapon
	would cause, that could be handled by values such as mass, or eq
strength
	(ie., likelyhood of it being of a stronger material than your
opponent's
	weapon).

	>   o Give players who wish to not killkillkill something else
to do, which
	>     represents well-spent time. Player houses, quests, let
them run a
	>     city, RP, etc.
	I agree with this.  Why not let them open up shop and make money
off the
	adventurers.  A good shopkeep could make a heck of a lot of
money in
	trading.  Soon enough, if he makes enough money, perhaps he buys
some
	guards/mercenaries, and before long he's lord of the land.
Definitely
	should be bonuses for brains over brawn. =)


	>Essentially, levels are being used for two things:
	>   1. Determining when you can learn a skill

	How 'bout you can always learn a skill, but based on your stats
and
	profession, you have a predisposition towards some skills rather
than
	others.  For example, I have a disposition towards being
excellent with a
	computer, and my brother is more attuned with his creative side,
more of an
	artist/athlete.  What determines when I can learn a skill irl
depends on
	what knowledge and experience I already have, and what
prerequisite skills I
	already posess.

	>   2. Determining when you can use eq
	As stated above, based on your stats/skills.


	>> How do you expect the playerbase to react?
	>
	>If it's anything at all like the staff members I've merely
MENTIONED this
	>to, as a possible *consideration* - with great bouts of
gnashing of
	>teeth, and with feelings of betrayal. And that's without even
speculating
	>aloud, what a change like removing levels would entail. Bleah.

	Check out the Paper RPG Role Master (one of the best IMHO) by
IronCrown it uses a system vary similar to the one above. Any Character
can learn any skill. It just cost more if the skill is better suited for
a different class. It also allows any one to use any Item, but your
chance of succes is related to both skill and stat. Just a place to see
how it is done on paper.