[MUD-Dev] Re: Levelless MUDs

[Holly Sommer]

On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, jacob langthorn wrote:

> If you think about it, the equations that go along with this are
> already built into the Paladian and AD&D role playing systems.  If you
> so chose, I suppose you could use their equations, or you could write your
> own based on what skills/stats you wanted to use.  One thing about them,
> IIRC, is that you could have 100% in a skill, but often there were minuses
> (were you shooting while running, did you have the proper tool, etc.).
> This seems to have been an effective way in regular role playing to handle
> skills.
> 
> 
> >   o Remove the level restrictions on eq. This is what the builders
> >     objected to the most (see below). I am of the mindset that levels
> >     could still be left in place for deciding relative "power" of the
> >     eq (and the goodies/bonuses/penalties/etc. which go along with
> >     the more desirable eq), but that if player characters no longer have
> >     player levels, then there is no level check for using eq: you
> >     found it, you can use it.
> 
> Okay, call me crazy, but I don't think in 6 years of mud coding
> that I've ever created a piece of equipment that was "level" based.

I wouldn't say crazy, just "someone who has never built on a Diku." Are 
Richard Woolcock and I the only Diku people here? Sometimes it sure feels 
like it.

> Strength/skill based, yes, 

Well, sure. Objects which are heavy require a higher strength to even 
wield. There are other restrictions which can be added: racial, 
class-based, alignment-based, etc.

> but I've never said, hey, if you're under level 15 you 
> can't use this.  Having level based eq seems to be a crazy idea to me.  

I don't think it's crazy, it's just somewhat artificial, but it works, 
for certain game settings. Those which rely heavily on eq for individual 
effectiveness in survival have a need for level-based eq restriction.

> But what does age have to do with it?  

Indeed. What *does* age have to do with it?

> A 50 year old man doesn't have as much hope of doing what a 10-20 year 
> old would with a broadsword.

Depends. What race are you takling about? A 10-20 year old dwarf would be 
wet behind the ears, and a 50-year-old dwarf would be a strapping young 
buck ;)

  [snip]
> (ie., likelyhood of it being of a stronger material than your
> opponent's weapon).

OK, but this isn't really related to removing levels from MUDs.

> >   o Give players who wish to not killkillkill something else to do, which
> >     represents well-spent time. Player houses, quests, let them run a
> >     city, RP, etc.

> I agree with this.  Why not let them open up shop and make money
> off the adventurers.  A good shopkeep could make a heck of a lot of
> money i trading.  Soon enough, if he makes enough money, perhaps he buys
> some guards/mercenaries, and before long he's lord of the land.

*nod* Which are good things in heavily RP games. For those which are 
still (despite their strongest effors) grounded in whacking your opponent 
to bits, this would be astoundingly dull.

> Definitely should be bonuses for brains over brawn. =)

Which is always a challenge to code :)

> >Essentially, levels are being used for two things:
> >   1. Determining when you can learn a skill
> 
> How 'bout you can always learn a skill, but based on your stats
> and profession, you have a predisposition towards some skills rather
> than others.  

This is what we've done with our professions system. The skills still, 
however, are not available until you reach the proper level. We are 
hoping to eliminate this barrier by using the previously mentioned 
skilltrees.

> >> How do you expect the playerbase to react?
> >
> >If it's anything at all like the staff members I've merely MENTIONED this
> >to, as a possible *consideration* - with great bouts of gnashing of
> >teeth, and with feelings of betrayal. And that's without even speculating
> >aloud, what a change like removing levels would entail. Bleah.

> 	Check out the Paper RPG Role Master (one of the best IMHO) by
> IronCrown it uses a system vary similar to the one above. Any Character
> can learn any skill. It just cost more if the skill is better suited for
> a different class. It also allows any one to use any Item, but your
> chance of succes is related to both skill and stat. Just a place to see
> how it is done on paper.

*nod* I have RoleMaster, Paladium and GURPS (and possibly White Wolf, for 
its magic system) to check out. If only the day were about 3 hours 
longer, and I didn't need to sleep ;)

-Holly