[MUD-Dev] FW: [uodevlist] OT - Lawsuit on Lum's

[Brian 'Psychochild' Green]

I generally hate to be country specific on an open forum like this.  I
guess it begs the question of what happens when things like this happen
outside the US.

I highly recommend everyone check out some of the online resources
available.  Of particular interest are the US Department of Labor's help
pages.  The main pages about the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) is at
http://www.dol.gov/elaws/flsa.htm

Of course, the standard "I am not a lawyer" disclaimer applies.  I
should also mimic the disclaimer given by those pages that this isn't
the law, only a description of how the law is currently interpreted.  It
might be interesting to hear what a real, live lawyer has to say about
this....

Myschyf wrote:
 
> >Jeff Freeman wrote
> 
> > This question came up on the UO newsgroup:  Other than hospitals, are there
> > any for-profit companies that use volunteers?  I couldn't think of any,
> > other than AOL.
> 
> Nursing homes, retirement homes and communities, newspapers (unpaid interns
> or very lowpaid, same thing IMHO), 

Actually, these all fall outside of minimum wage and overtime laws. 
(reference: http://www.elaws.dol.gov/flsa/screen75.asp)  Companions for
the elderly and newspaper employees ("of limited circulation")  are
exempt from both minimum wage and overtime rules.  Hospitals are
generally non-profit organizations, too (more on that later).

> for that matter any unpaid internship
> could probably be considered the same thing.   

There's rules for "trainees" (and a pretty through definition) available
at http://www.elaws.dol.gov/flsa/scope/er15.asp  I'm not 100% sure, but
this would seem to cover internships.

Of course, these are fairly weak arguments.  People speed all the time
on the highway I take to work.  I'm sure many people would acknowledge
that people often speed on that highway.  But, I'm sure the local law
enforcement still hand out tickets to speeders; speeding is still
illegal, even if other people do it regularly to everyone's knowledge.

To the topic at hand, there's a page specifically for volunteers on the
Department of Labor's site at
http://www.elaws.dol.gov/flsa/scope/er13.asp  Basically, employment is
fairly broadly defined as "to suffer or permit to work."  It mentions
that employment is tested by "economic reality."  (Anyone have any info
on this?)

There are some rather specific definitions for volunteers.  According to
http://www.elaws.dol.gov/flsa/scope/er16.asp: 

"Individuals who volunteer or donate their services, usually on a
part-time basis, for public service, religious or humanitarian
objectives, not as employees and without contemplation of pay, are not
considered employees of the religious, charitable or similar non-profit
organizations that receive their service."

But, "Under the FLSA, employees may not volunteer services to for-profit
private sector employers."  Now, this is a bit ambiguous in the page
(let's hope the law is less so).  Does it mean that people considered
employees can't be volunteers?  Or, that you can't have volunteers for
for-profit private sector companies (IE, they are automatically
employees)?

It's important to note a subtlety: "Also remember that the FLSA applies
to employees and not all Federal laws share common definitions of
employee."  For example, an "employee" for FLSA purposes might not be an
employee for tax purposes.  Since the FLSA provides a fairly broad
definition....

Any way you slice it, it ain't looking good for the home team.  Let's
hope that this is a catalyst for improvements to the industry....

--
"And I now wait / to shake the hand of fate...."  -"Defender", Manowar
     Brian Green, brian at psychochild.org  aka  Psychochild
       |\      _,,,---,,_      *=* Morpheus, my kitten, says "Hi!" *=*
 ZZzz  /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_   "They're not bugs, they're 'place-
      |,4-  ) )-,_..;\ (  `'-'    holders for code that works.'"
     '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)         - Andrew Kirmse, Meridian 59 creator



_______________________________________________
MUD-Dev mailing list
MUD-Dev at kanga.nu
https://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev