[MUD-Dev] Re: PvP systems

[S. Patrick Gallaty]

----- Original Message -----
From: <the_logos at www.achaea.com>
To: <mud-dev at kanga.nu>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: PvP systems


> On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, Greg Miller wrote:

>> I'm not saying I want a dangerous world. I want a world where I
>> don't have to deal with odd admin rules interpretations, admin
>> whims, and the irritating wait to have some employee come fix my
>> problem for me in those inevitable cases where another player
>> causes me trouble. I want the ability to apply negative
>> reinforcement in the face of inappropriate behavior.

> Fair enough, but the problem is how to give you the ability to apply
> negative reinforcement _only_ in the face of inappropriate
> behavior. Inappropriate behavior, unless you adept a very simplistic
> definition of it, can't, as of now, be completely defined in code.

Come now, it's not as if player-governments is territory which has
never been addressed before, or escalation flags, or any of this.
There have been many successful games which both allowed antisocial
behaviour (which I believe most of us agree is a content value add due
to the threat and thrill?) but at the same time clearly delineated
lawbreakers as 'bad people' and empowered other players to take action
against it.

I can think off the top of my head of Legends of Kesmai, with their
outlaw and murderer and aggressor status flags - and increased
penalties for death for murderers, and forgiveness system.. there
-were- PK's there, however you were severely limited in your ability
to run amok without becoming hated and outlaw which made life quite
complicated.

An example of totally player run government is Dark Ages, which has
player-elections, player-set laws in towns, citizenship, and the whole
gamut.  Each town sets their own laws, democratically by the vote of
players who are citizens of that town.  There are towns which will ban
you for saying 'u' and 'plz'.  Other towns do not care.

My point is that this isn't new territory.  I am distressed somewhat
that biggest failing of the new breed of mud, the graphical MMORPG
seems to lack most in the one area that we have the MOST experience in
manipulating which is the social mechanics.  Players are the content
that adds value to mpog's.  I find it depressing that so few of the
new breed of games have leveraged this well yet.  I chalk it up to a
pioneer attitude.  I think the MMORPG developers mislead themselves
into believe that it's the content and game experience they are
pioneering, when in truth it's the presentation.  I think that this is
so much less glamorous that it's left unconfronted.

I hope the adage that graphical presentation is inversely proportional
to depth in games doesn't hold true for the future ongoing for the
mmorpg offerings.

- SPG



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