[MUD-Dev] Re: PvP systems

[gmiller at classic-games.com]

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Original message: http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q1/msg00451.php

On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:22:25 -0800 (PST)
"John Buehler" <johnbue at msn.com> wrote:
> gmiller at classic-games.com writes:
> > That depends entirely on the reward for PK vs. the penalty of a curse.
> 
> Yup.  I suspect that the environments we each have in mind are rather
> different, thus the different ways of dealing with PvP.

Yeah, I've been pretty sure of that one since the "curses and grief
players" thread ;)

> My abuse scenario was that a guild acting as a spoiler group whacks
> a single player that they dislike with a ton of curses.  Now that
> victim has 20 curses on him while he can only dump one curse on each
> of his 'attackers'.  If the penalty for a curse is high, that victim
> is dead in the water.  If the penalty for a curse is low, then fear
> of curses is reduced, making anti-social actions more reasonable as
> a viable way to play.

Again, I don't see that as abuse. The target should I either meet some
friends or avoid offending guilds.

> I think I'm missing an important element about your system.  You've
> said a couple times that the system favors those who avoid conflict.
> But curses aren't only dumped on a character if it originates a
> conflict.  It could be singled out for curses because of
> misunderstandings or any one of a number of situational problems.
> Such things are a concern because of the age of the players and
> their tendency to be easily offended, etc.

When I say "avoid conflict" I don't mean "avoid starting
conflicts". That sort of thing is strictly subjective and there are
going to be a number of cases where there are large groups on each
side of an issue. People who don't learn to resolve misunderstandings
and move on are a source of problems, and hitting both sides
encourages them to learn their lessons or leave.

>> The curse system presents one way of dealing with such verbal
>> misbehavior without responding in kind. People running around
>> yelling racial slurs would tend to receive more curses than they
>> would have available to give out.

> Again, there's the issue of how effective a curse is and how many I
> have to hand out.  I suppose that I could rank my curses such that
> when somebody does something really offensive I make sure that curse
> sticks, while I tend to recycle the curses I dumped on players for
> simply annoying behavior.  But that would tend to mean that
> annoyance players would have their curses lifted over time.

Right. It's not meant to be a life sentence. People eventually get
second chances, and negotiated settlements are also a possibility.

> Curses just strike me as a six-shot pistol in a medieval world.  You

I prefer not to hand out gatling guns and napoleons :)

> have a limited number of shots, but you can shoot anyone and they
> are then shot - until you need to reuse one of your six bullets.  I

Except that you're virtually guaranteed to get shot right back.

> haven't gone into the potential problems with curse mules, although
> I think you said that curses only apply while the cursing character
> (player?) is active.

Yes, I aim for that to be a partial solution. Introductions help too,
since it limits it to people you've had contact with in a typical
intro system.

> I dunno.  I guess I'd have to see the world in operation with the
> curses system running, along with whatever other support systems you
> have in mind.  As before, I prefer to avoid having most dirty deeds
> done to me instead of being able to gain a certain amount of
> retribution for them.

It'll be some time before I have anything like this running on a large
enough scale to be meaningful. Worse, it'll require a ton of tuning
before it does more or less what I want.

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