[MUD-Dev] Teaching ethics in MUDs

[Tess Lowe]

Tess Lowe wrote:

>> I underwent a value-shift as a result of playing. I consider this
>> to have been a vitally important component of my personal
>> development.

John Buehler replied:

> But you only learned that because of your existing set of values and
> morals.

Yes, agreed. The lessons I learned were relative to my level of
psychological development at the time.

The question for me is whether everyone can have a relatively positive
ethical learning experience from playing MUDs, or whether you (or the game
community) would need to be sufficiently 'wise' already before it could be
of benefit.

Tess concluded:

>> My conclusion from this is that online environments can in fact be
>> a potent force for ethical development, without any particular
>> value-system being pushed at (or forced on) the participants.

John responded:

> That would be a recipe for ethical development, but the ethics that
> would develop would be an extrapolation of whatever ethics system
> the player comes into the game with.

I agree. However, this is not necessarily a flaw. Ethical training is
almost entirely about provoking people to *think* about the values
that are important to them. Their conclusion as to what values are
important at any given time of their life is less critical than the
fact that they are *aware at all* that they have values which motivate
their behaviours.

John continues:

> It's a question of degree.  For a two year old, the pain of finding
> out that they are not at the center of the universe is significant,
> but it's the appropriate degree for a two year old child.  Do we
> take 13 year olds and place them in positions of power in an adult
> community?  Do they learn the correct lessons by being saddled with
> adult responsibilities at 13?  Some children will be able to rise to
> the challenge and thrive.  Others will not.

I agree with you that our current psychological maturity dictates the
depth of wisdom that we are likely to learn next. I happen to feel
that the online worlds I have experienced recently (Dark Ages, Achaea)
can 'teach' useful lessons to anyone in their teens or older (although
in reality it is the players who teach themselves). And as in real
life, people do tend to meet the challenges which are most appropriate
for them at the time. At least, that is my experience. I can make no
claim to an authoritative statement on that one.

> But the overall process is random.  You're assuming that the older
> players are mature and interested in helping others to understand
> the value of ethical behavior.

You're correct that I am assuming this, because in my experience it
has been true. I am 30 years old, and yet in both Dark Ages and Achaea
I found more than a few friends and mentors whom I consider to have
been important influences on my life and personal growth.

And yes, there is a random aspect to the process. It is, after all, a
complex system and Chaos theory applies. But this is, I feel, vital to
ethical learning if one is to avoid being dogmatic and avoid forcing
people to learn in a particular way.

> You're also assuming that the game world is ensuring that unethical
> approaches to solving problems will not be successful.

Actually, no. In my opinion it's actually irrelevant what the game
world says about ethical and unethical approaches to problems. I doubt
that anyone learns ethics by having a game tell them that it's wrong
to steal the cheese, or that it's wrong to murder the orc lord to get
the uberstaff. I am therefore not interested in using game mechanics
to attempt to encourage or discourage particular types of behaviour.

All I wish to do is provoke some self-reflection. What values are most
important to you? How do these values affect the way you behave? This
then leads on to ethical debate. Is compassion 'better' than righteous
purity? Is cruelty and fear the only way to freedom? The conclusions
that people reach dont really matter - it will depend on each person's
experience and culture in any case. My interest, spurred by my
friend's MA research, is in learning whether online worlds are any
more or any less effective at ethical training than real life. From my
own experience I would say that they are.

I feel this answers much of the comments you made in the latter half
of your email, about the ineffectiveness of game worlds trying to
force ethical behaviour onto players. In other words, I agree with you
completely, but I feel ethics can best be taught by *not* teaching
anything at all, but by provoking people to think about their own
values and whether any others might exist which they might consider
better for themselves at that time.

Tess wrote:

>> I also tend to feel that the relative 'unreality' of the internet
>> experience means that the pain people endure can be more easily
>> left behind and forgotten than the experiences of 'real life'. The
>> lessons one learns, however, stick around, and are as useful
>> outside the virtual world as inside it.

John replied:

> The experience of being shot with an arrow?  Yes.  The experience of
> being insulted by another player?  No.  The only reason that the
> impact of that insult can be left behind is because the only place
> that the player will be encountered is in the game world.  And the
> impact returns when you next see that player character - just as
> when an insult returns to you when you see a person in the real
> world.

I agree that an interpersonal problem in a game-world will still be
present the next time you meet the same person in that game-world. In
fact, this is one of the very things that (eventually!) provokes
people to consider their own values and whether they should change
themselves. Such interpersonal challenges are almost essential for
ethical development, in my opinion. The point I was trying to make was
that due to the anonymity of the internet, one *can* always walk away
from such problems if the pain becomes too much.  In my experience,
when one leaves a game world for good, the bad things are soon
forgotten (or at least no longer hurt), but the friendships made and
the lessons learned, still remain.

John concludes:

> I don't get it.  You say that focusing children on the consumer and
> wage-slave mentality is a rough treatment for children, but you
> think that having to survive in the lethal environment of a medieval
> world among a mix of adults and children is going to generally be
> beneficial?  With supervision, I can see that, but left to its own
> ends, that virtual environment is going to probably end up with some
> nasty negatives.

You raise the obvious question, which is whether the 'values' learned
in a complex system like our MUD communities will tend to become more
sophisticated or become more degenerate, a la "Lord of the Flies".

I have no authoritative sources to hand, but I seem to recall reading
that where developing emotional maturity is concerned, having a full
range of age groups learning and relating together was considered much
more effective than segregating each age-group from the others.

I'm not making any wild claims here, John. I'm still at the stage of
wondering *if* MUDs can have a positive impact on the ethical
development of their players.

regards,
~Tess


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