[MUD-Dev] Interesting EQ rant (very long quote)

[Marian Griffith]

In <URL:/archives/meow?group+local.muddev> on Mon 26 Feb, Chris Lloyd wrote:

> Ah, so the your Grandfather's axe is exactly the same as any axe you
> can find lying around? If you kept it in the first place I'd expect
> it to have some unique property or such that you'd want to keep,
> rather than get another, slightly worse axe.

Actually, it has only one particular, but immensely important, unique
property: it was my grandfather's.  It does not need to be good or at
all special, just that fact is enough to make it valuable to me.  The
same as with many things that I hang on to in real life that have no
great intrinsic value other than emotional attachment.  The point is
not that they are important, but that I know about them, and can tell
you all about them, which is what I would expect of any character in a
roleplaying game as well.  Even if it has no bearing at all on the
intrinsic value of the thing.

>> The ONLY thing in EQ's background story that was of ANY use was the
>> story about Miragul the arch lich and how he went North beneath the
>> ice.  We spent many hours looking for him during beta, then during
>> the first month of retail.  Not there (not implemented).  Then
>> along comes a patch and boom there he is, but once he was in the
>> game his background story didn't matter one bit.  Just another
>> quest mob to be smacked down, mob location noted, mob items noted,
>> weaknesses noted, strategy to kill him noted.  His background story
>> and who he is doesn't matter one bit in the game.  Only the items
>> he has.

> Thats a good example of bad implementation. What they should have
> done with the patch is to allow the potential that someone will
> stumble on his lair at a later date, and then waited to see which
> lucky adventurer discovered him first. Of course, after that it
> doesn't matter, everyone could go there, but I bet you wish you'd
> found him when you went looking.

Actually, it is not good or bad implementation.  It is merely how you
are looking at the game. If you play by stats, then obviously the ro-
leplaying aspects matter nothing to you. Even the first time msew (?)
went looking for this character was not for roleplaying reasons but to
kill him.

>> The generated minutia is NOT determining how you feel; _you_ are.
>> And more over there are no consequences to this quest at all, all
>> of the actions you take don't affect your character in the game
>> world at all.  And because of that, the minutia is irrelevant.  All
>> the quest was: character gets magic thingie did some stuff that
>> didn't matter in the game world.

Ah, but is that not true of the very act of playing the game in this
way? I mean, -nothing- your character does has any effect on the ga-
me at all.  Regardless of the amount of equipment obtained and of the
quality thereof.  You and five thousand others have done exactly the
same, collected the same equipment and skills, and have characters
cast from an identical mold.  I am not trying to suggest your view of
things is worse than mine but only that it all depends on what you
find important and what you find value in while playing, whether it is
collecting the best equipment, defeating the monsters or immersing
yourself in the backstory.

>> If you do not affect people in the game world then you get the
>> epidemic that exists in online games: the paladin grouping with
>> CLEARLY not paladin ideal-esque people and the age old excuse: "I
>> am converting them to be good."  or "I need to be with them so I
>> can make certain they don't do something REALLY evil."

Actually, that is an example of poor roleplaying, not of poor games.

>> If it does not help you in the game, then why bother with it?  Make
>> up your own religion, get your own followers, spread your own
>> likeliness across the world!  Leave a mark on the world BY YOUR
>> CHARACTER and your character's ideals, philosophies.  And your
>> character and his followers can ACTIVELY affect the game world,
>> unlike little Timmy or little Timmy's grandfather.

But both are really parts of what it means to roleplay.  Timmy and his
sword are -props-. The set the scene against which you can role-
play. Just like the room descriptions, which would otherwise by your
definition also be extraneous, and might as well be done away with.
What the talk about the sword does is establishing Timmy as a more
"real" character, and it suggests to the player that things happen in
the game outside their activities.  Even if it is fake, it still
enhances the illusion, which is what makes roleplaying both easier,
and more meaningful.

> It might not help you get more loot, but it might impress and please
> people of the 'persona' type (going back to Tess Lowe's immersion
> model) where people care about the game world, and are attached to,
> and linked to, the world's history and NPCs. People who do RP a bit
> will want to know who Timmy was, and may file that bit of
> information away for later reference. If you don't want roleplayers
> in your world, fine. But even the slightly curious player will
> wonder "Who is this <insert powerful or well-known mob> guy,
> anyway?".

>> Question: which is more valuable for the game's livelihood?
>> Consistent created quest backgrounds that are all interwoven OR
>> Allowing your player base to create their own quests, own stories,
>> and generate content in the game?  (which is going to scale?)

> Whilst I agree in principle that having players make quests is a
> good thing, I have fairly strict ideas about the geography and
> design of my game world, so I want to be the person (along with the
> other admins) who decides that sort of thing. I don't mind input,
> but it has to fit exactly into our pre-visualised environment.

Personally I am not so certain that allowing players to create their
own quests is a good idea. Unless you allow them to really "live" in
your game, meaning that their characters can have a lasting effect on
the gameworld (and which requires a level of detail and accuracy that
few players will find enjoyable)


Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...

Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey

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