"Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (Re: [MUD-Dev] MMORPGs & MU Ds)

[Koster]

From: Ola Fosheim GrF8stad
> (Replying to a message on MUD vs MMO, but not discussing that)
> "Koster, Raph" wrote:
 
>> The word "advanced" says again to me that you are applying
>> particular biases. They're just a KIND of gamer, not an advanced
>> level of it.

> I keep wondering why commercial designers keep saying stuff like
> that.  Follows the line of statements we get to see like "we are
> not going to have a RP server, because there is no common
> definition of RP", "regular players RP too in their own way",
> etc... RPers are quite obviously often more advanced in the way
> they use the game, because they use the game on multiple levels
> and in ways which has not been designed for and provide
> significant enjoyment (or the opposite) for other players as
> well. Now, the commercial designers treat them as "just a kind of
> gamer" because they dont constitute a significant population...

Lots of other types of players also use the game on multiple levels
and in ways it has not been designed for, not just roleplayers. :)

>> The argument you've just made is that they are *consumers* of
>> roleplaying. I agree 100% with that assertion. That does not mean
>> they are *producers* of said content. I define roleplayer as a
>> *producer* of said content.

> Producers are often "more advanced" in their approach than
> consumers, right?

They're also often producing at right angles to what the consumers
actually want. And I don't see most roleplayers engaging in market
research. :)

>> You mention group departures; social spaces are particularly
>> vulnerable to this because, after all, roleplayers can do their
>> thing with just IRC.  Chatters can do it with darn neara any

> Well... I can't.  You might as well state that RPGers can just do
> their thing with IRC or web as well.

They did and do. I am not sure I follow.

>> communications medium. The chat spaces failed to offer
>> significant value added and were not, by and large, able to
>> monetize the presence of the users.

> Heh. If the hamsterwheel is value added... It certainly is far
> from significant content being added. Actually, Active Worlds
> probably achieves a lot more, albeit for fewer and older users.

The "hamsterwheel" as you put it, is one mechanic for having players
create an investment in data that is stored in the given online
world's database, as opposed to an investment which does not reside
there. The more portable the investment in the environment, the
easier it is to pick up and go elsewhere.

Chat spaces are common. They're cheap and easy. They don't have
anything tying you to the place except other people. I have drifted
in and out of more of them than I can count.

The "significant content being added" isn't the stuff the developers
put in.  What really matters are the things that the USERS put in,
that they keep in the online worlds' database.

>> The building model was successfully co-opted to a limited extent
>> by Ultima Online, and given the success of that limited
>> co-option, almost every game since has followed suit to one
>> extent or another--in fact, I'd say that the integration of a
>> crafting paradigm into the basic advancement game mechanic is
>> much MORE widespread in MMOs than it is in muds.

> *cough* What has "crafting" to do with building? Crafting is the
> same as fighthing, it is just another mindless harvest and convert
> resources activity.

I'd boil it down to these notions:

  - it's psychological. In the one case, players think "that lewt
  would have been there even if no one had slain the orc." In the
  craftin case, they know it would only appear because of player
  action--their action.

  - it's easy. People like to feel creative with things even when
  they do not actually require creativity

  - it leaves a mark. People crave adding to the shared database,
  frankly.  Just as they do in real life

  - it's "knitting." You can do it while chatting, hence its
  widespread adoption among the roleplayers and the socializers

It IS building, you know, even if mechanically it is just a
transferral of resources, simply because they say so. It's building
because it is the creation of bits and bytes that the player feels
are theirs in some fashion.  Once again, we're in the position where
if THEY think it is something, we don't have the right to question
it. An observation I have made before regarding online communities,
player rights, and the "reality" of virtual lives. Clap if you
believe in fairies. :)

-Raph
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