[MUD-Dev] Boys and

[Caliban Tiresias Darklock]

From: "Paul Schwanz" <paul.schwanz at east.sun.com>

> But then I'm not talking about the list.

I am. I used the term on this list. If it gets used elsewhere,
that's not my problem unless I'm the one using it.

> If you had included the rest of that paragraph, other readers
> could see quite clearly that "these people" is not a reference to
> list members, but to those easily misled people who will invest in
> anything, as you pointed out previously.)

I'm not talking to those people. I'm talking to this list. I don't
care what you say to easily misled people; I, personally, make every
reasonable effort not to say anything to them at all. It doesn't
really matter what you say to them, they will go off and tell people
that you like to shoot kittens from hotel balconies, or some other
thing that comes straight out of nowhere.  Then they will try to
give you money for the rights to whatever it is they made up, and
you have an interesting dilemma of whether it's worth that money to
have people think you were responsible for the idea of shooting
kittens from hotel balconies.

> My concern (and I expect hers as well), is that the terms used on
> this list by knowledgeable professionals, though understood quite
> clearly by other knowledgeable professionals, have a tendency to
> make their way into other conversations where people are not as
> knowledgeable, but instead often give in to lazy thinking.

The laziness and ignorance of others is not my problem. I do not try
to discuss this subject with stupid people, so I do not need to
discuss it in terms accessible to stupid people. I don't have to
target my every statement to the lowest common denominator. I can,
instead, discuss it in terms accessible to the audience I am
addressing. Any kibitzers or hangers-on who get lost trying to
follow along, that's life -- but it's not like this is an
excessively complicated idea.

> However, off-list there are developers and investors who think
> "girl games" are about Barbie or ponies.

I don't care. Those people will always exist and refuse to be
educated. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out what did
and didn't sell last year, and chances are a comparable product will
perform comparably this year. The people who continually release
virtual ponies that nobody buys are not exactly playing with a full
deck. If some person really does not understand what I mean, I
honestly could not care less. He will probably *never* understand
what I mean, and even if he did, he would not respond to it in a
rational fashion anyway.

> I agree with Marian that this list is as good a place as any to
> try to begin to address this issue.

Address it how? With a longer, more precise phrase? That is *not*
going to make the discussion more accessible to the idiot
audience. If anything, it will make it more readily misunderstood,
and they will run off to hold a meeting about "games that adhere to
squirrels".

> It certainly can't hurt to use terms that are less likely to be
> misunderstood.

Of course, it won't HELP, either.

At its heart, I think this whole issue about what we should call
these games is a question in search of a problem... it's being asked
without any real reason why we *need* to ask it. Since the question
furthermore has no real ANSWER, it seems almost ludicrous to
entertain it. Think about asking the question "what should we call a
pomegranate instead of pomegranate?" -- well, first of all, why? 
What's wrong with "pomegranate"? And even if we say something like
"some people don't know what one is," what else would make sense? 
"Tough-skinned red fruit full of seeds"?

Once we stop talking about genders, it's a pretty dumb scenario,
isn't it?

> While I'm at it, I'll point out that "women's basketball" is quite
> commonly understood to be a statement about the fact that female
> athletes participate in that particular sporting event.

And "girl games" is quite easily understood to be a statement that
female players play the games. Direct correspondence. One to one
mapping. Where's the problem? It doesn't lead to the debate of
whether men can play basketball, or if co-ed basketball is possible,
or who is more interested in basketball, or who watches the
basketball. Those issues are largely irrelevant.


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