[MUD-Dev] A Question on PvP and PK

[szii at sziisoft.com]

From: "Ron Gabbard" <rgabbard at swbell.net>

> Why is it that 5% of the EQ players (slightly more for AC) want to
> participate in PvP combat while 95% of the DAoC players want to
> participate in PvP combat when the games are pretty similar with
> similar customer bases?

IMHO, people who wanted PvP moved to DAoC from EQ.  They went there
FOR PvP.

Most people I've talked to on the EQ message boards are the "holier
than thou" type who blindly associate PvP with griefing.  They hold
their nose and point at the server imbalance and call the PvP
servers "the penal colony of the EQ world" and don't take the time
to look at the game.

Judging from the server boards, I'd venture a guess that the bulk of
the original "PvP types" have played UO or a PK MUD before.  This
contrasts greatly against the new players who've played, say, Sim
City and Oregon Trail all their lives.  A good number came from the
FPS world with no regard for the game(s) and simply saw it as
another FPS world to kill everyone/thing in.  Thus the number of
"griefers" who don't see it as such; they see it as "you die,
respawn and fight back" and not griefing.

On another tangent, I believe that 99% of the world has
over-sensitive egos and FAR too much attachment to their characters.
To watch that character die is hard for them.  It's one thing to die
in a situation and time/place of your choosing (ie, raiding or
whatever) but an entirely different story to get jumped and die by a
player or group.  They don't see it as a game, such as chess in
which you simply start again.  They don't see it as a challenge.
All they appear to see is the single dimension of "I lost.  I'm
leaving."

IMHO, I'm a staunch believer in that for every great story there
MUST be conflict.  Every epic tale you can think of (or at least
that I can) revolves around a conflict.  Perhaps not
physical...perhaps not a person, but still a conflict or a struggle.
The anti-PvP people tire of hearing people use it, but IMHO, it's
extremely valid.

In MUDs, UO, EQ, etc. PK is -the- most fun thing on the planet.
I've died a lot - many times losing every piece of gear I own.
However, in every respect I've gotten back up to try again.  I never
quit.  And if I lose at tennis/chess/whatever...well, you can quit
there too but do you?  Why would playing a game be any different?

Think about this:

  Why do people like PvE but not PvP.  

I believe, simply, that PvE is structured.  It's the SAME.  It's
static.  The mobs are dumb (AI).  The game is too easy.

PvP can be chaotic. It's unpredictable.  You have REAL LIVE THINKING
PEOPLE instead of broken mob pathing and "just flood them"
mentality.  PvP is HARD.  It adds an element of the unknown to the
mix and, well, people just don't like that.  How many people picked
Diablo on the "easy/normal" setting and never bumped it up?  How
"hard" is NWN(SP), really?  How many cheats exist for people to
use/abuse in just about every single game?

The game industry caters to the llamas and the lowest common
denominator in the pursuit of profits.  Easy = more people.  Big =
more time.  Easy + big = lots of online time spent = more money mo
money mo money.

I believe I deviated slightly from your original post, but perhaps I
may bring it back together here at the end...

DAoC was PvP from the start.  People knew what to expect.  EQ PvP
was an add on and not really built for PvP.  Tack onto that VI/SOE's
total "moronothon" of "oops, that's okay in PvE and not PvP" patches
since then and you see a semi-broken (but still fun) PvP system.

Semi-broken PvP addon versus a built-for-PvP/RvR game.  Llamas
avoided DAoC a lot simply BECAUSE of the PvP/RvR.
  
People are just too used to dumb AI and PvP is simply too "hard" for
them.  While a percentage really are just explorers and have the
capacity to play PvP but choose not to, most would simply quit when
faced with it.  They just can't hack it.  EQ popped up and
introduced the masses to graphical MUDding with zero PvP.  It set
the de facto standard (but UO was a much better game until the
trainer programs popped up) and everyone got used to FP games in a
fantasy world with no PvP.

Why kill a player when you can kill a dragon?  Oh yeah, because that
player has similiar gear and tactics, a brain, friends, and a clue.
Dragons are zerg fodder.  You take it down once, you rinse repeat
forever.  Players constantly change up on you.  Nothing's ever the
same.  Players come back with friends, hunt you in your towns and
actively seek revenge.

Players are hard to fight.  Llamas in EQ don't like a challenge.
They simply like to win without working for it (just like in
RL...why work for it when you can have this over here for
less/easier?)  This is true to a point.  You could apply the same
thing to charcoal vs gas grills.  Or matches to flint and steel.
It's one thing to strike a match for a campfire, but it just means
so much more to use flint and steel. (I use matches.)  Which is more
satisfying?  Which is more efficient?  Which gives you more pride?
Which simply gets you from point A to point B in the least amount of
time?  Flint-steel = more time, more effort, more pride, more
satisfaction.  Matches = faster, easier, no skill.

A Yugo will get you from point A to point B.  My Z28 gets you there
too, but in more style and you'll have more fun doing it.  My wife's
Cavalier is a median point.  Some people like to advance and advance
and advance with little effort and no setbacks (non-PvP EQ).  Some
people like the challenge, intensity, and pride that comes with
hitting the upper level cap on a hardcore PvP server.  Some people
just don't care about levelling and want to brawl all the time.

I know people that play both, even today.  I have friends on every
side of every fence.  Some of them play EQ to advance and swith to
DAoC to PvP.  But yet, they continue to rag on the EQ PvP.

Right, wrong, it's all about perception.


OT: BTW, Oregon Trail owns and I just picked up a copy for my 7yr
old son to play.  =)

-Mike/Szii
Addicted to pk since 1993 in every way/shape/form/game.


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