[MUD-Dev] Re: MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article

[Marc DM]

<EdNote: Attribution fixed>

On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:18:43 -0700 (PDT) 
Sean Kelly <sean at hoth.ffwd.cx> wrote:

> I challenge you to name 5 american films released in the past 2
> years that teach or even aim to teach anything.  For each film you
> name, also list its type and approximate box-office success.

Hm, I see your point. Even more, you can learn a lot from a stupid
commercial movie and you can learn nothing from a challenging
intelligent movie. However, as a gamedesigner I would like to
succeed in making games that make some people think or have a deep
impression on them and are at the same time successfull. I think
Stanley Kubrick succeeeded in this. A clockwork orange and full
metal jacket where thought provoking as well as spectacular
movies. So, indeed I shouldn't say the media or a particular movie
is popular because people learn a lot from it. It is not because
something is popular that it has been a valuable learning
experience.

Still not so shure about this subjects and how they rellate. I'm
looking for a way to make learning fun. And I believe that playing
is the key to make learning fun. And it is our task to make fun
learning experiences. hm I somehow believe that if people like it
than it's valuable if they don't then it's not a valuable experience
to them. But this reasoning doesn't always work. Help me!

>> How could I learn through this new medium, online worlds,
>> something of value to my inhabitants or players. How could I
>> learn them that 'rascism is no good'?

> d00d r4ci5m sUxx0rs!

I don't get that? :-) Seriously, am not a programmer, what does this
means?

>> How would it be to step into the skin of a 'nigger' in a rascist
>> society?  This is what online worlds make us possible to do. You
>> can create a society that works just like the real world society
>> works. With that difference that there is some magic possible
>> over there, that isn't possible over here, such as changing
>> viewpoints. You can have different lives, different avatars, in
>> the same society and experience the world from different
>> angles. You can see what the results are from your actions
>> without riscing to much (that's playing). Only your online
>> persona will drag the results of your actions with him, not your
>> real life persona.

> If a player can see the results of their actions without risking
> much, how do they identify negative behavior?  What motivates them
> not to repeat such behavior?

Well, they do risk to lose their online persona, the life of it or
the reputation of it, or the physical objects it's got in that
world. They will be able to lose valuable stuff, virtual stuff, but
valuable to them, the real people behind the online representations.

>> I find it extreemly exciting that in some time people will be
>> able to play policeman, drugs dealer or even major in some
>> virtual city. I find it exciting to think of a gaming world that
>> would allow my grandma to play a hooker trying to survive in some
>> rough city and my little sister playing mother, trying to live
>> together with a husband and take care of the children.

> I'm having trouble understanding how playing a hooker in an ORPG
> will teach someone anything about what it is like to be a hooker
> in RL.

Well, you can play a pilot flying an airplane in a virtual setting
and learn the craft pretty well, why wouldn't you be able to play a
politician or a hooker in a virtual setting and learn the craft
pretty well?

> Or, for that matter, why a person would be motivated to play a
> virtual hooker out of any kind of objective, inquisitive interest
> at all.

I would like to play it, for sure.

>And how many parents would let their children play an ORPG > that
allowed people to play criminals, hookers, and struggling > parents
(assuming any kids wanted to play the game anyway)?

Some would, others won't, I would

> And frankly, I'd worry about the state of a world where people had
> to turn to an ORPG to learn that being a young, struggling parent
> sucks.

Better to learn it there than to learn it when it's too late.

>> Online Worlds are a serious learning tool and telling stories is
>> not the way to go! Online worlds tell their story, offer an
>> experience THROUGH the interdependent relations of the different
>> elements that are part of your univers. You as a designer decides
>> how the universe works and then the players will figure out how
>> it works and that way will learn something, it's that
>> simple. Long live the sandbox metaphor!

> I'm not sure I agree.  There's a place for storytelling in ORPGs
> so long as the players are allowed to shape it.  And I think for
> the most part players appreciate a contextual world.  It gives
> them a sense of motivation beyond leveling or the need to one-up
> each other in some Lord of the Flies-esque struggle for supremacy.

The contexts is mostly created by the players. For instance when you
enter the world, you can get the story from another player about
that world but it will mostly be about real players being described
and responsible for the situation. For instance you get a story
about his job, what perty and which major rues the city, what
problems the city has. What rules there are, where you can drive
your car, where you can buy food. All player created, with the tools
we designers gave them. So you would get a contextual world that is
varied, that lives, that is not static, that can be changed. Penty
of things and situations that can motivate you for a thousand
different actions and it won't be about leveling!

What do you envision Sean with storytelling that is shaped by the
players? I don't get that.

> As for learning -- I agree that the players will learn something
> by figuring out how your universe works, but what they learn is
> how to navigate the world and manipulate it to their advantage.
> I've learned strategy and problem-solving from games but I've
> never learned any sort of life-lesson.

Life lessons can be learned through a story and they can be learnde
through a simulation. Simulations, or alternate worlds, or not deep
enougyh yet to be able to learn you the life-lessons story can learn
you but they will in the future. For instance if I play politician
in a world and i do some stupid moves and because of that lose the
elections I can learn something valuable from that.

> And I have the feeling that if I felt that a game was trying to
> impose a lesson on me I'd probably quit playing it.

That's what I feel everytime I play a lineair game, designed from a
'storytelling' approach. But I assure you that in my world you will
feel free and will see that you can do a lot AND you will be able to
learn life lessons in it although I as a world designer do not have
yet a lot impact on what all that one player will learn. But that's
with a story too (and I feel in dgital worlds there are methods to
control experiences of one single player too but this is far off)

--MarcDM

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