[MUD-Dev] PVP and perma-death

[J C Lawrence]

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 01:51:08 +0200 
hrose  <hrose at tiscali.it> wrote:
> Ola wrote:

> You seem to design something tailored for a specific behaviour you
> observe in a game. Like players griefing in PvP. As if observing
> "boxed" players. But the truth is that the box didn't exist before the
> game itself. Their attidude is simply their reaction to the design
> itself.

Partially, they're also reacting to the people in the game and the human
emotions and reactions which those people exhibit and respond with.
Those are background semi-constants that game design and implementation
can mask but can't really redefine.  

Another large chunk is the functional definition of griefing as "any
activity which costs more revenue than it generates".  We're not talking
about in-game activities any more, but about a messy gestalt of IB and
OOB reactions to the game and game-related activities, and their
resultant impacts on game cash flow.  Its a messy space, only a portion
of which is within the game-design boundaries.

> What I mean is that the design defines the behaviour and it's silly to
> design after a behaviour.

Uhh, so I have a game which allows partial motion control of avatar
bodies.  Fairly innocuous in itself until we get (not so) simulated sex
performances, beastiality with dumber NPC implementations, necrophilia
with NPC corpses and replays of the Rape in Cyberspace in more graphic
forms.  Heck, now that we've all seen the chorus dancing storm troopers
on SWG, are we really ready for the re-enactments of
pick-your-porn-movie?  (Yeah, I know, it is is already happening just
not terribly media-publicly yet) 

The problem is that none of those activities particularly extend or
alter the basic functionalities of the game.  All the game provided was
moving avatar bodies.  What they do is present those features in ways
that cause people to look at them differently.  Bubba hip swinging on
the plaza is dancing.  Bubba hip swinging in the plaza with Bernie on
all fours in front of him is something else.  Bubba arranging pebbles on
the beach is making a pretty picture.  Bubba arranging pebbles on the
beach to write out <insert phrase> is somehow different.  Perception
rules the day.

> The behaviour is consequent to the design, not causing the design. 

Some of the design is called "human nature" and some is called "social
and moral context".  Those bits of the design are a bit harder to edit
than some of the rest.

Perhaps more key is that people *like* being upset and having their
boundaries stretched, a little.  They like th frisson of danger, the
verve of the slightly illicit, the hint of the sexually suggestive, etc.
They like it in nice easily digestible and controllable doses, well
sanitised, ugly bits cleaned up.  Much of griefer activity simply
exceeds those tolerance boundaries by a little or a lot.

> My rule is that if griefing happens in a game it means that the design
> of that game is bad. As simple as that.

What games do you consider sufficiently well designed?

> In particular about the PvP I think the aim is to design it to be
> fun. Pushing actively the players toward it and not away from it.

A core problem with PVP is relatively simple:

  Everybody wants to win.

Much like Garrison Kielor's kids in Lake Wobegone "all being above
average", it just doesn't work out like that.  PVP is by definition zero
sum.  A large part of the griefer problems with PVP can be described as
the griefer simply enforcing the zero sum aspect of PVP on the victim,
past the victim's tolerance level.  They're breaking the victim's
illusions.

  "I don't mind losing so much if I know I can do better next time and
  may even have a good idea of how I might even be able to win next
  time."

Much of PVP griefer activity breaks that tolerance boundary: 

  "You lost, there's nothing you can do about it, and you're going to
  lose from here on out.  Deal."

There's a certain lack of empathy in there, and players like empathy.

-- 
J C Lawrence
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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