[MUD-Dev] Challenging the grind - take 2

[Johan A]

Vincent Archer <archer at frmug.org> wrote:

> But why is grinding XP so tempting? What could tempt players to do
> something else besides grinding. You need an incentive to do so. I
> was suggesting the removal of XP, which made grinding useless, but
> as people in this list suggested, there are many people who do
> prefer to grind.

I think it's how you look at it. If you think. 'I have to kill 2250
gnomes to level..' then yes it's a grind. If you think 'I am playing
a game that I love and it will last me months even years and hey,
I'm with good friends!' then it's not a horrible grind anymore. I
think developers must find some way of getting people out of this
state of mind where they see everything as a grind but still keeping
the game challanging and long lasting.

> Everquest, and its first two expansions, had almost no
> correlation. If you could get the piece of equipment, then you
> could use it. In fact, level 1 characters could initially get into
> the outer planes, and grab "NODROP" (or rather NOTRADE) equipment
> intended for the maxed characters.

> That gave the rise to the "twink" syndrome decried by so many
> people.  Level 5 characters, geared with equipment that required
> level 50 characters to obtain, were able to kill with ease content
> intended for a level 10 character and obtain a disproprotionate
> amount of XP compared to their level. And the feeling of jealousy
> of other level 5 characters that didn't had big friends/deep
> pockets to get the twink's equipment.

Level restriction is good to a certain point. I like twinking
characters. I think AO has the most advance system and almost
everyone has little twinks for level 20-50 tower battles. It becomes
a competition of "mini-me's" that is always a good laugh.  If you
level restrict everything then the world becomes very very static
and linear. Envy and jealousy in MMO's are the carrot that makes you
put up with the grind (if you see it as such). Trying to please
everyone and make them equal is the biggest mistake you can make.

> In the first mode, you gain levels (and the expected equipment
> that comes with it). Then, once you reach max level, you start
> gaining equipment instead. You don't have much of a choice; you
> grind to get to max, then stuff. Trying to get equipment before
> max level is an exercise in futility, as you can easily level with
> the available equipment, and anything you get before gets
> obsoleted as you near the maximum level.

> And the game ends poorer because of this.

Now this is where 'levelling items' come in. Using the same
equipment all the time is boring of course but if you have an item
for many levels then it's OK or every time you upgrade your
equipment they change looks.

Let's say you have a very challenging dungeon that's called 'Dungeon
of corruption' or something. You have to fight your way down (or up
maybe it's a spiralling tower reaching for the skye's). At the end
of this long a difficult encounter there is a boss. Now normally in
a raid encounter or any boss encounter, there are only a few items
and 80% of the players walk away with nothing but a raid point and
2XP.

Let's say that now that the boss is slain, you see this pool of
purity that has not yet been corrupted. Now every player can bless
their weapons in this pool and upgrade it with new powers. Everyone
walks away happy.

Now the problem here is that this would be a one-off encounter. You
would only have to do this once so there would probably have to be
rare drops from the boss anyway and yes, we are back to the old raid
point system again. Anyway, point being that more levelling
equipment is a way to make sure the old dungeons will still be used
expansion after expansion. Maybe at later levels you can dismantle
the weapon and use it to upgrade something else? Again you may be in
danger of making the game too linear, almost making it a single
player game and forcing players to always go the same route.

I think in WoW there is a dungeon where at the end, there is a forge
that you can use to make powerful weapon's. This is also an
interesting idea that can keep a dungeon being played for a long
time, even after you introduce new and powerful
weapons/components. Maybe even remaking dungeons from time to time,
new monsters and blocked passages to keep it fun and fresh for
longer.

-- Johan
_______________________________________________
MUD-Dev mailing list
MUD-Dev at kanga.nu
https://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev