[MUD-Dev] Re: MMO Communities

[Paul Schwanz]

Michael Hartman wrote:
> Paul Schwanz wrote:
>> Michael Hartman wrote:

>>> For Threshold, I have definitely found that every effort I make
>>> to build community has improved retention. When people feel like
>>> quitting the game is similar to giving up one's friends, it is a
>>> lot harder to quit.

>> But is anyone even questioning this?  I think pretty much
>> everyone agrees that stronger community bonds leads to greater
>> retention.  Yet many question whether forced grouping or forced
>> downtime is effective in creating stronger community bonds.

> You don't think that actually teaming up with people in the game
> to accomplish a shared goal is something that fosters community?

I think it can be.

> How can the opposite even POSSIBLY be true?

Let's see.  When you are forced to group, any of the following could
occur.  Group members steal your loot.  Group members berate you for
the tactics you used.  Group members don't talk at all and ignore
you when you speak.  Group members talk too much and you just want
to play the game.  Group members think it is funny to make jokes
about farting.  Etc.

There are all sorts of ways that grouping with others may not foster
community.  Whether or not community is fostered depends on the
group and the experience.  If the group consists of a bunch of
jerks, warm fuzzy feelings seem unlikely.  Unless you already know
the people in the group, you don't know whether they'll be jerks or
not.  The introvert is less likely to expend the social energy or
take the social risk to find out.

But you talk about shared goals and forced grouping as though they
are interchangeable.  I don't think they are.  That's why, if you'll
follow this thread back, you'll see me say things like the
following:

  "That isn't to say that removing the benefits received for
  cooperative team play is a Good Idea.  I think the structures in
  place for team-based cooperation are effective for the most part
  /for a particular subset of players/.  (And I realize that his is
  what you are pointing out.)  On the other hand, I would like to
  see additional community options presented to other players that
  still involved a (weaker) sense of belonging, but also required
  less social effort and investment.  I envision this resulting from
  methods for allowing the typical solo player (who will /never/
  experience the benefits of current models for cooperative team
  play because of the social investment required) to still
  contribute meaningfully to a particular community in a manner that
  has the potential to bring him recognition from that community.
  An example of this sort of gameplay might be ATITD's resource
  collection at its Universities, although I envision something
  where the community affected is more clearly defined.  (Collecting
  certain resources can open up new skills taught at Universities
  which are then available to everyone in the game.  But you must
  visit the University to gain the skill, which means that
  geographical location will determine convenience.)"

In other words, I believe there are models for gameplay that offer
up shared goals without forced grouping.

>> I, personally, have established very few social or community
>> bonds through typical MMORPG gameplay.  In fact, I can't think of
>> a single instance.  Instead, most MMORPG friendships that I've
>> had have come out of online game design discussions.

> Ugh. I feel terrible for you. The overwhelming majority of
> off-game discussion mediums are absolute filth filled with flamers
> and trolls. The very thought of making my MMORPG friends that way
> makes me shudder.

I have not found that to be the case.  I still have friends that I
communicate with periodically whom I met on the design discussion
boards for Middle-Earth Online, Atriarch, and others, as well as
through MUD-Dev discussions.

> Surely you can admit that if not the majority, at least a
> significant portion of, players make their MMORPG buddies through
> actually playing the game?

If you mean that MMORPGs tend to self-select for a particular kind
of player based on their design, then yes, I agree.  It seems to me
that most of the players who play MMORPGs participate in the sort of
social paradigm the MMORPG was set up to encourage because those who
strongly prefer a different paradigm never bought the game, or if
they did, quickly discovered it wasn't to their liking.

--Paul "Phinehas" Schwanz
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